Comeback of Ancient Farming Practice

[Tetters]

@Meadowlark 's thread discusses the comeback of ancient farming, and it is becoming painfully clear that those in our world who consider themselves to be ''above'' the ordinary people, have a wish to make sure that the majority of us scum are left hungry. This is spilling over into many directions, and I think there is a general awakening of many to the horrors and potential destruction that is imminent if things do not change.
I think it would be a good idea to try and stay on the subject the thread is about, and not wander too far from the subject in hand.

 

[zigs]

@Meadowlark
I think it would be a good idea to try and stay on the subject the thread is about, and not wander too far from the subject in hand.

Good point Tetters, it's all too easy for us to start going on about all the other things that seem to be going wrong at the moment. Best if we try to keep it about the matter in hand before trying to put the rest of the Woruld right

 

[Susan BBPM]

I was surprised at the direction this thread had taken from the outset, but only went along with it because it was moderators involved in the off-topic tangent.

I think one of the drivers for modern farming practices is the need to feed a MASSIVE population. Also, what worked well in one location could be catastrophic in another - for example, practices that are highly effective in clay soil might lead to erosion in silt. And I think history shows that this was the case as people migrated from one land to another and took their farming practices with them.

What would happen if you took ancient farming practices and scaled them up in order to feed the current world's population? What impact would that have?

What do we mean by 'Ancient'? If we go back to the year 1800 (which is fairly modern times in terms of farming) the world's population was 1 billion. Now it's 7.8 billion.

So, multiply the amount of land needed to grow food by 7.8. You'd also need to multiply the livestock and the food THEY eat by 7.8. What impact would that have on the ecosystem? It's possible that ancient farming practices, scaled up to support today's population, could actually be worse than what we have.

However, for the individual with a small farm or garden I think there are huge benefits to be gained from going back to some of the old ways. It's not something that would work if everyone did it, but for the lucky few - why not?

 

[Tetters]

I was surprised at the direction this thread had taken from the outset, but only went along with it because it was moderators involved in the off-topic tangent.

Zigs is laughing all the way to the garden (ennit a cold summer day today) he agrees Susan that he is a rubbish moderator - thanks for pointing it out

 

[Susan BBPM]

Zigs is laughing all the way to the garden (ennit a cold summer day today) he agrees Susan that he is a rubbish moderator - thanks for pointing it out

Funnily enough, the West of Scotland where I live is probably the hottest part of the country. Well into the 20's every day. It was already too hot to be out at 9am!!

We're forecast to have scorching hot days for the next fortnight!

I just hope we don't get the 40 degrees that you had down south!

And, to keep us on topic - can ancient farming practices cope with climate change? Because climate has changed over the centuries. Also, as the population migrates to places with vastly differing climates.

 

[Tetters]

Just normal fluctuations - no climate panic

 

[Ruderunner]

Susan just made the best argument that the Climate crisis is anything hut.

Climate change has changed.

Yep, keep moving the goalposts and it can remain a "crisis " forever.

This thread went off topic about 13 pages ago and I think our moderators had a bit to do with that


But, Susan also raised a point about population and farming. I see it as a chicken vs egg situation. Did population growth bring on mega farming or the opposite?

 

[headfullofbees]

The people I distrust least, ALL say that population decline is our biggest worry.

 

[headfullofbees]

 

[Susan BBPM]

The people I distrust least, ALL say that population decline is our biggest worry.

If it were any other species we were talking about the word we'd be using would be 'infestation'.

As far back as I can remember there was always famine in parts of the world. Nature is cruel - if a land isn't capable of sustaining a population then said population is culled. Now sure, that's not nice - of course you don't want anyone to suffer and die - least of all your own family and friends!! Helping to make a land more fertile - drilling for water etc - is good.

But increasingly we're taking people from cultures where you have a dozen kids expecting most to die. We're saving the kids, giving them all smartphones and internet access and encouraging them to flock to the West to be used as cheap labour, undercutting the native workforce.

Harsh as it sounds - sometimes you need to let people die. None of us can live for ever. Better to enjoy life than to make everyone utterly miserable in a futile attempt to prevent death.

If someone can't have children naturally - maybe, just maybe mother nature knows best? If someone has a genetic condition that would kill them in childhood without intervention - maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be helped to have children (thus flooding the gene pool with bad genes).

And if a landmass isn't capable of supporting life, then really you need to let nature work things out. There is a certain number of people that the UK landmass can support. And it's a LOT less than the current population. This makes us reliant on imports of food, which in turn undercuts local farmers rendering us utterly helpless.

And this is why I am looking at Ancient farming practices. I don't give a flying f**k about feeding the world. The world is screwed. I'm only interested in me and mine right now. Modern ways are all centralized. What we need is to return to distributed system. And we can all make a start with ourselves!!

 

[Ruderunner]

Some to agree with, Some to disagree with. I'm going to work soon so probably this evening to get into it.

Quick side note, beer is supposed to be good bait for slugs in the garden. I understand there's a certain brand that has become very inexpensive recently. Might go get some.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Some to agree with, Some to disagree with. I'm going to work soon so probably this evening to get into it.

Quick side note, beer is supposed to be good bait for slugs in the garden. I understand there's a certain brand that has become very inexpensive recently. Might go get some.

Ah, an opportunity for my 'good deed for the day'.

You'll be absolutely delighted to learn that flour, water and yeast mixed together works even better than beer

 

[zigs]

I was surprised at the direction this thread had taken from the outset, but only went along with it because it was moderators involved in the off-topic tangent.

Yep, I'm useless as a mod, I only popped in here to borrow a wheelbarrow

 

[Susan BBPM]

Yep, I'm useless as a mod, I only popped in here to borrow a wheelbarrow

A refreshing change from the rottweiler's that usually gravitate towards the role!! LOL

 

[Ruderunner]

If it were any other species we were talking about the word we'd be using would be 'infestation'.

Eh. We're a species that is capable of providing for ourselves. Most other infestation simply consumes what's available.

As far back as I can remember there was always famine in parts of the world. Nature is cruel - if a land isn't capable of sustaining a population then said population is culled. Now sure, that's not nice - of course you don't want anyone to suffer and die - least of all your own family and friends!! Helping to make a land more fertile - drilling for water etc - is good.

Darwin is correct.

But increasingly we're taking people from cultures where you have a dozen kids expecting most to die. We're saving the kids, giving them all smartphones and internet access and encouraging them to flock to the West to be used as cheap labour, undercutting the native workforce.

Better to teach them to make the most of their current location. Knowledge is easier to spread than moving people.

Harsh as it sounds - sometimes you need to let people die. None of us can live for ever. Better to enjoy life than to make everyone utterly miserable in a futile attempt to prevent death.

If someone can't have children naturally - maybe, just maybe mother nature knows best? If someone has a genetic condition that would kill them in childhood without intervention - maybe, just maybe they shouldn't be helped to have children (thus flooding the gene pool with bad genes).

See Dr D again. I'm not sure why we tried to stop the Tide Pod challenge.

And if a landmass isn't capable of supporting life, then really you need to let nature work things out. There is a certain number of people that the UK landmass can support. And it's a LOT less than the current population. This makes us reliant on imports of food, which in turn undercuts local farmers rendering us utterly helpless.

Back to the top. Y'all were smart enough to ship in food rather than starve. I'm not sure how imported food undercuts local farmers unless you're importing too much.

And this is why I am looking at Ancient farming practices. I don't give a flying f**k about feeding the world. The world is screwed. I'm only interested in me and mine right now. Modern ways are all centralized. What we need is to return to distributed system. And we can all make a start with ourselves!!

Centralized or globalized? I believe in self sufficiency to the extent possible. Sure it's nice to trade with friends, but it's possible for friends to become enemies. Then what?