Trying again armed with supplements still getting BER?

[YumYum]

Too much nitrogen can cause blossom end rot. I've done that on my squash a couple times. Plent of calcium and other things in my soil. Excess nitrogen causes the plant to grow faster than what calcium and other micronutrients can uptake with it. Calcium is an immobile nutrient so imagine if your arm muscle grew with half of a bone what it would look like. Arm end rot?

 

[smitty55]

I only know of one soil lab in the US that tests the uptake ability of nutrients in the soil. All of the other labs, and there are literally dozens, that do a fine job of telling you what is in the soil but they do not test for uptake ability. The only one I know of that does this is TPS Labs in Edinburgh Texas and they do these tests world wide. They aren't cheap but what good does it do to know that your soil is full of calcium or magnesium if the plant cannot uptake it. And this applies to all elements and minerals in soil. Even Texas A&M University doesn't do this test. And this is why I rarely advise to get soil tests. Ph is another matter altogether and I believe one should know this. I am convinced that any experienced gardener can look at his plants and tell what the soil lacks whether it be N or P or K and just about any trace mineral.

Which blight are you referring to, early or late. I know nothing about late blight but I do know a few tricks concerning early blight.

Yea I'm talking early blight. These heirlooms have no resistance to it. I've used different mulches over the years including my own compost and now trying the vetch after reading about it when researching blight. I've also used foliar sprays from my compost tea and also a foliar spray using aspirin. I tried Bordeaux mix one year but it did nothing as it's effective for late blight, not early. I also always cut the lower branches off to keep them away from the soil surface and trim others to keep good airflow between plants. I know I'll never get rid of it totally, specially seeing as I'm limited in how many beds I have available to rotate crops so basically every second year they get tomatoes. I also have one 4x8 bed at the community garden that gets tomatoes every year so no matter what I do there are always others beds close by where members do no maintenance to their plants to keep things clean so I'm stuck with that. Fortunately I'm still able to keep it down to the point where I still get very good yields of large 1-2 lb+ fruit. Best tasting tomatoes I've ever had for sure. All meat with few seeds and fantastic flavour for fresh eating and preserving. One slice easily does a sandwich. I've made salsa the last two years with different recipes and both times the people I've shared some with said it was the best salsa they've ever had in their life. I can a lot of quarts of tomato sauce each year too and it's so good, when you pop the snap lid off the first thing you smell is those tomatoes. Too bad you can't grow them down there, you'd be totally amazed.
Here's the article I first found about using vetch. I use 8ft stakes and last season using vetch for the first time I had some vines that by September were taller than the stakes so there was no issue with lack of N. https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFiles/12650400/WebsiteCharacteristicsofHairyVetch.pdf

 

[smitty55]

If I tie tomato plants to a 7 foot tall metal pole my plants never have blight. If I grow tomato plants in 5 foot tall cages plants always get blight first week of Aug. The only thing I can figure is, plants growing on a tall pole get better air circulation. Maybe plants get better sunlight too.

I did an experiment, 6 tomato plants in cages and 6 tomato plants on poles. Cages have blight and poles have no blight. Ok figure that out???

That is absolutely the reason, you nailed it. I use 8 ft stakes and limit a 4x8 bed to 8 plants, all indeterminate. I assume that's what you're growing too if you use poles. I pinch off all suckers as I only want flower clusters on the main vine, plus the fact it keeps the plant structure more open to allow for better airflow and sunlight penetration. That's all a bonus when trying to deal with blight. Mulch is also a must to block the fungus from splashing up onto the lower leaves, which should be trimmed back anyway to at least a foot above the soil level. Pinching off all suckers also gives me bigger tomatoes as the plant doesn't have to waste energy to grow them. In my case the suckers would break off anyway with the weight unless I supported them. Determinates are a different story as they aren't a vine but a bush and most of them are hybrids with resistance to disease that heirlooms don't have. They make up for it in quality of flavour though anytime.

 

[smitty55]

My own decades of experience in veggie gardening totally disagrees with the above statement. Completely.

First, I doubt that many (if any) veggie gardeners test their soil as often as I do over as many years (multiple decades).

Second, my soil consistently tests out optimum in Mg, Na, S, P, Ca, Cu and slightly high in K.

Third, I simply cannot grow tomatoes in my soil without BER unless I use Epsom Salts. I would also add that I practice strict crop rotations and soil rebuilding without the use of synthetic fertilizers.

Clearly, BER is not Ca deficiency, in my case, nor is it a soil deficiency unless there is some element or process that extensive soil tests do not cover.

There must be something about growing tomatoes in Texas with your climate as Chuck said the same thing. Maybe it's ph, I don't know. What I do know is that there are numerous articles from experts that all say the same thing, that being that unless there is a deficiency in the soil there is no need to add ES. So the big question is why can you and Chuck not grow tomatoes without using ES. Meanwhile I never get BER and don't use ES. Also at the community garden where I have a bed there are over 40 beds and of the 20 or so that have tomatoes in them, none of them have any signs of BER that I have seen. So all I can surmise is that assuming your watering schedule isn't the issue there is something with your soils and/or climate that blocks the absorption of Calcium.

 

[gary350]

When I lived in Phoenix AZ area I was told, you can not grow a garden in AZ. People from back East plant AZ garden like they still live back East. I planted my tomato plants Nov 1st. Soil test shows soil is powdered rock with lots of iron and 8ph with no food value for plants. I mixed a good amount of organic material in the soil locations where tomato plants were. I also added real fertilizer. All the neighbors told me to water my lawn 2 hours every morning, LOL. I know better not to water anything in the morning, mother nature waters in the evening and I do too. I had my irrigation set to water my plants 12 minutes at 9 pm every night using a 2 liter per hour nozzle. Every tomato plant got about 1 pint of water at 9 pm. My lawn got 10 minutes of water at 9 pm. Neighbors had water running from their lawn 12 blocks down the street, wow what a terrible waste of water. About 2 years later neighbors said, we never see you water your lawn and you have the best lawn in the neighborhood, what are you doing? I told them what I am doing, they roll there eyes and said, yea right tell the truth, what are you really doing? I had an excellent crop of tomatoes on Christmas day. Buy fertilizer at Farm supply stores 50 lbs bag closets less than 5 lb bag of organic fertilizer. Every plant in the garden needs different food, feed plants what they need. Tomatoes & potatoes need low nitrogen 5-15-15 fertilizer. Corn & greens needs high nitrogen. Beans need 10-10-10 fertilizer. Etc. I watered my AZ garden from a 5 gallon bucket. AZ water is 8ph also. I added 1 cup of vinegar to 5 gallons of water plus a small amount of calcium to water my tomatoes. It does not take much vinegar to lower 8ph water to 5 ph. After putting 5ph water on tomatoes and water comes in contact with garden soil, 5ph water comes up to about 6 or 6.5 ph that was much better than 8 ph. I am glad I took chemistry glass in school, I have no problem with synthetic fertilizer, nitrogen is still nitrogen no matter where it comes from. Phosphorus comes from rock that is mined then ground into powder. I use wood ash in my garden it is about 25% calcium and lots of K = potassium. When I lived in AZ there was no wood to burn.

 

[Meadowlark]

There must be something about growing tomatoes in Texas with your climate as Chuck said the same thing. Maybe it's ph, I don't know. What I do know is that there are numerous articles from experts that all say the same thing, that being that unless there is a deficiency in the soil there is no need to add ES.

No, it's not about PH. I have acidic soil and Chuck does not. I have no deficiencies measurable in soil test and very likely that Chuck does not either.

Your reference provided from the "Tomato Geek" was hardly convincing scientific evidence to me but decades of using Epsom salts successfully to prevent/treat BER is highly convincing. The reference advised against using Epsom salts to excess. Of course, overloading to excess is NOT a good idea ever with anything in gardening. Of course, some situations do NOT need the addition of Epsom salts. However, it is just simply wrong, incorrect to say that NO situations benefit from it.

There are very few absolutes in gardening. I automatically distrust any so called "expert" that deals in absolutes. Gardeners need to find what works for them in their soil and their climate...and in my soil and climate, Epsom salts works!