Trying again armed with supplements still getting BER?

[Don't Give a Puff]

Thats really interesting, thank you for sharing

 

[DirtMechanic]

Thats really interesting, thank you for sharing

Not Really. Its misleading actually. Worms cannot tell the difference between a water mold and BER

 

[Don't Give a Puff]

Not Really. Its misleading actually. Worms cannot tell the difference between a water mold and BER

Its not their fault they were misinformed, these things happen, sometimes we get the wrong information on a topic, it happens. Even so the topic has peeked my curiosity enough to consider my own research.

 

[smitty55]

You need to be aware that soils in parts of the country have different qualities and some areas benefit from epsom salts but overall much of the time there can be adverse effects from using them. Many soils already have adequate magnesium and adding more actually encourages BER as it blocks the absorption of calcium. The only way to know for sure is to do a soil test. So yea it may work for Chuck but in other parts of the country it's a bad thing to use. https://tomatogeek.com/epsom-salt-tomatoes/

 

[gary350]

BER is caused by low calcium. If you have lots of rain it will wash calcium away. It is best to give plants calcium once a month all summer. Tomatoes, melons, peppers, cucumbers, squash, all have BER with low calcium. We had 37" of rain this year Jan to May.

 

[smitty55]

No wonder it isn't working. I put a minimum of 2 handfuls each time I apply it. It is probably more than 1/2 cup each time and I apply it normally 3 times per season. Once at planting, once at bloom stage and once during fruit growth.

Chuck you need to realize that for most of the country and Canada Epsom salts are not good to use because there is no shortage of magnesium in the soils. In your case yes but to tell people to use them when you have no idea of their soil properties is a mistake. In fact excess magnesium actually blocks the absorption of calcium so adding epsom salts to normal soils actually makes BER worse.

Beware Of Using Epsom Salt For Tomatoes (Here's Why)

Think you're helping your tomatoes with epsom salt? Learn the simple truth about epsom salt and why it probably should be in the garden.

tomatogeek.com

 

[smitty55]

BER is caused by low calcium. If you have lots of rain it will wash calcium away. It is best to give plants calcium once a month all summer. Tomatoes, melons, peppers, cucumbers, squash, all have BER with low calcium. We had 37" of rain this year Jan to May.

Actually to be more accurate it's caused by the poor absorption of calcium from the soil. There can be plenty of calcium in the soil but other factors can block it being absorbed.

 

[Chuck]

Actually to be more accurate it's caused by the poor absorption of calcium from the soil. There can be plenty of calcium in the soil but other factors can block it being absorbed.

I agree totally with this statement. Referring to your post #36 Magnesium toxicity is very uncommon in Canada or anywhere else. Magnesium toxicity also limits plant uptake of phosphorous, potassium, iron and manganese. What is much more common is phosphorous toxicity which locks up calcium and magnesium. The OP said nothing about other nutrient deficiencies so it would seem very unlikely that the use of epsom salts was or is any way harmful.

 

[smitty55]

I agree totally with this statement. Referring to your post #36 Magnesium toxicity is very uncommon in Canada or anywhere else. Magnesium toxicity also limits plant uptake of phosphorous, potassium, iron and manganese. What is much more common is phosphorous toxicity which locks up calcium and magnesium. The OP said nothing about other nutrient deficiencies so it would seem very unlikely that the use of epsom salts was or is any way harmful.

I still think you are missing the point. If there are no deficiencies in the soil then there is no need for epsom salts as they can interfere with the absorption of calcium and make BER worse. Did you not read the link I posted, there are many similar articles.

 

[Chuck]

I still think you are missing the point. If there are no deficiencies in the soil then there is no need for epsom salts as they can interfere with the absorption of calcium and make BER worse. Did you not read the link I posted, there are many similar articles.

This is where you and I disagree. Probably it is because we have totally different soils. And I don't believe it is a soil Ph difference, it is something else. Somehow epsom salts changes the ability of a plant to uptake blocked calcium. I can't explain it but it works in both acidic and alkaline soils. The only time I have seen it not work is in some, not all, clay soils but I have never seen the use of epsom salts actually harm a plant when used in moderation. I just now measured a handful of epsom salts by reaching into the bag and closing my hand around the salts. It measured about 1/8 of a cup. So, I use about 3/4 cup during the entire season per plant. Epsom salts does not build up in soil. I am not a scientist, just a long time gardener and my only proof is what I see and what I see is total eradication of BER. I wished I had a scientific answer and I agree with you that every gardener who has issues should get a good comprehensive soil test from a reputable soil lab.

 

[Meadowlark]

.. If there are no deficiencies in the soil then there is no need for epsom salts as they can interfere with the absorption of calcium and make BER worse. ...

My own decades of experience in veggie gardening totally disagrees with the above statement. Completely.

First, I doubt that many (if any) veggie gardeners test their soil as often as I do over as many years (multiple decades).

Second, my soil consistently tests out optimum in Mg, Na, S, P, Ca, Cu and slightly high in K.

Third, I simply cannot grow tomatoes in my soil without BER unless I use Epsom Salts. I would also add that I practice strict crop rotations and soil rebuilding without the use of synthetic fertilizers.

Clearly, BER is not Ca deficiency, in my case, nor is it a soil deficiency unless there is some element or process that extensive soil tests do not cover.

 

[gary350]

Rain washes calcium away so you need to add it all summer. Tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, melons, peppers, all get BER. I use wood ash for calcium. I burn old boards and tree limbs to get wood ash. Give your soil calcium every 2 weeks all summer to stop BER. If you water your plants a lot you may be washing calcium away.

 

[smitty55]

Chuck, no doubt it's the difference in our soils. That's why I caution against pushing the use of epsom salts without knowing the soil qualities of the garden in question. The bottom line though is that for most of the US and Canada there is no shortage of magnesium or sulphur in normal soils. Now in your case you know it works for your soil in your area. For me however I've been growing heirloom indeterminate tomatoes for over thirty years and I've never had an issue with BER. I use mostly raised beds so the soils are all of my own making so are what I would call optimal in terms of tilth and nutrition and I use no chemical ferts at all.

Off topic here but my biggest issues have always been blight related. Last year for the first time I experimented with growing a fall/spring crop of hairy vetch to fix N in the soil and then cutting it down to ground level just before planting in June and using it as a mulch for the growing season. I was pretty happy with the results and the growth so I did it again last fall. It over winters quite well here in zone 5A and really takes off in the spring, the vines were at least 3 ft long when I cut them back last spring so it made a good thick mulch. We had a good thaw last December so here's a pic of my beds taken Jan 2.

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, no doubt it's the difference in our soils. That's why I caution against pushing the use of epsom salts without knowing the soil qualities of the garden in question. The bottom line though is that for most of the US and Canada there is no shortage of magnesium or sulphur in normal soils. Now in your case you know it works for your soil in your area. For me however I've been growing heirloom indeterminate tomatoes for over thirty years and I've never had an issue with BER. I use mostly raised beds so the soils are all of my own making so are what I would call optimal in terms of tilth and nutrition and I use no chemical ferts at all. View attachment 94186
Off topic here but my biggest issues have always been blight related. Last year for the first time I experimented with growing a fall/spring crop of hairy vetch to fix N in the soil and then cutting it down to ground level just before planting in June and using it as a mulch for the growing season. I was pretty happy with the results and the growth so I did it again last fall. It over winters quite well here in zone 5A and really takes off in the spring, the vines were at least 3 ft long when I cut them back last spring so it made a good thick mulch. We had a good thaw last December so here's a pic of my beds taken Jan 2.

I only know of one soil lab in the US that tests the uptake ability of nutrients in the soil. All of the other labs, and there are literally dozens, that do a fine job of telling you what is in the soil but they do not test for uptake ability. The only one I know of that does this is TPS Labs in Edinburgh Texas and they do these tests world wide. They aren't cheap but what good does it do to know that your soil is full of calcium or magnesium if the plant cannot uptake it. And this applies to all elements and minerals in soil. Even Texas A&M University doesn't do this test. And this is why I rarely advise to get soil tests. Ph is another matter altogether and I believe one should know this. I am convinced that any experienced gardener can look at his plants and tell what the soil lacks whether it be N or P or K and just about any trace mineral.

Which blight are you referring to, early or late. I know nothing about late blight but I do know a few tricks concerning early blight.

 

[gary350]

If I tie tomato plants to a 7 foot tall metal pole my plants never have blight. If I grow tomato plants in 5 foot tall cages plants always get blight first week of Aug. The only thing I can figure is, plants growing on a tall pole get better air circulation. Maybe plants get better sunlight too.

I did an experiment, 6 tomato plants in cages and 6 tomato plants on poles. Cages have blight and poles have no blight. Ok figure that out???