Mycorrhizal network - what do you know about them/think about them?

[MiniOrchardDude]

I know that trees and woody plants need fungus to feed them, whereas green plants like vegetables need bacteria. If you create a great environment for trees by putting down woodchip (such as Back to Eden) your veg won't grow well in that soil as it lacks bacteria.

I have to disagree with that last statement. I grow my corn and peppers in wood chips with no issues. I have grown tomatoes in chips successfully. I switched to straw for tomatoes only because its is easier. Dont need to remove the top layer of chips to plant. My entire garden is covered with wood chips which includes over 50 fruit and nut trees. It also include over 30 fruiting bushes, fruiting canes and hardy kiwi vines. Plenty of veggies too.

I believe there is more that particular story. Planting veggies in chips is not the easiest thing to do. The following year after using chips you have to carefully remove the top layer of chips and plant your veggies. You should not mix the chips in the soil. The chips need to stay on top or it will rob the plant of nitrogen.

Chips do help enrich the soil over tme but if you think covering anything chips and your plant will grow healthy it won't happen unless your soil is already rich. You still need to feed the trees, bushes, canes and veggies to their particular needs. Hopefully with enough time of constant chipping you wont need to feed the mature trees but as much fruit that they create I think its almost impossible just to keep them healthy with just wood chips. Only time will tell but I have my doubts since its almost a decade of wood chipping in the front. My soil is sandy so that might be the culprit.

I have layed chips in the back half of the garden for 4-5 years now. I still have to feed my trees. They still get micronutrient deficiencies. The area in the front always does better but not great, only because I chipped that area first about 7-8 years ago but I still have to feed them.

Here are pics of the peppers and corn in wood chips. I rotate my crops so this year peppers in the 12'x26' area and corn in two 8'x8' beds. Chips have multiple puposes. For veggies I use chips just to hold moisture and its free. If I need to feetilize veggies after planting later in the season. I have to remove the top layer of chips to add fertilizer and then cover it with the chips. Not to practical but necessary. Perennials I just layer the fertilizer on top and slightly work it in.

You mileage may vary.

MOD

 

[headfullofbees]

I wonder how many species of fungi are involved, and if different ones react with different plants?
Re growing mushrooms, the initial mycelium from spores is haploid and does not produce fruiting bodies, Two of these mycelium growing next to each other will fuse and produce a diploid mycelium that will produce mushrooms.

I am aware iicr, that it was once the case that it was thought that mf do not interact with brassicas, then it was found that there are previously unknown variants that do.
Ask CHUCK nicely & he may inform you about trichoderma, because he knows a bit, that bloke.

 

[redback]

I would like to know more about 'trichoderma' please Chuck.
The thing about bacteria and fungus is perhaps just a question of number. Maybe there are more bacteria in everything but forests.

 

[redback]

Merlin Sheldrake immediately redirects the conversation to fungi being a form of life and therefore a form of intelligence. He sees fungi as a flow of electronics, fluids and solids through a tubular network directed and given a purpose and meaning by some form of intelligence. The metaphors he uses are with the world wide web and the human bloodstream, not so much with a road between towns. Apparently, he has witnessed the flow in fungi roots stopping, then changing direction seemingly randomly, to move in the opposite direction or down another root as though the whole thing was being directed like a conductor directs an orchestra.
He says that lichen is also amazing.

 

[redback]

Apparently, some 'bracket' and 'shelf' fungi live permanently on trees and don't have a soil-based network. There are fungi that grow in ants and other insects. There are luminescent 'glow at night' fungi that grow on rocks. So not all fungi are mycorrhizal.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

So not all fungi are mycorrhizal.

Certainly not, athlete's foot for example. There are millions of different species, of which we have so far only described a fraction. Estimates vary from 2 to 10 million species, compare that to mammals of which there are about 5,400 identified species, and that's most of them.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

So not all fungi are mycorrhizal.

Certainly not, athlete's foot for example. There are millions of different species, of which we have so far only described a fraction, estimates vary from 2 to 10 million. Compare that to about five thousand five hundred mammals

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Sorry, I switched on and got the unposted message, so posted thinking 'Stupid old man' . I think it may have been an earlier version.

 

[redback]

That's a lot of fungi - ten million species. If they are all sentient beings - vegetarians and Buddhists are about to revise their thinking.
The arbuscular mycorrhiza is being sold in granulated form. I will visit the organic supply blokes to see what they have got. Carrots apparently benefit a lot in terms of water retention.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I've used granular mycorrhiza powder when planting trees. Hard to tell if it helped as I had no control.

Interestingly though, I used to plant trees, hedges and shrubs the traditionaly way in my clay soil - so dig a hole and mix in loads of compost to plant into. Most of my trees died. I reasoned it was because I was creating a 'bowl' in the clay that was holding water and drowning the trees.

In recent years I've just cut a slit in the clay with a shovel and shoved the bare root plant in. I've had 100% success rate with this approach. I think my initial reasoning is sound, but it's also possible I'm letting the young trees connect to the mycorrhiza network sooner as I'm not disturbing it. This would especially hold true when I'm using the powder.

 

[headfullofbees]

I've used granular mycorrhiza powder when planting trees. Hard to tell if it helped as I had no control.

Interestingly though, I used to plant trees, hedges and shrubs the traditionaly way in my clay soil - so dig a hole and mix in loads of compost to plant into. Most of my trees died. I reasoned it was because I was creating a 'bowl' in the clay that was holding water and drowning the trees.

In recent years I've just cut a slit in the clay with a shovel and shoved the bare root plant in. I've had 100% success rate with this approach. I think my initial reasoning is sound, but it's also possible I'm letting the young trees connect to the mycorrhiza network sooner as I'm not disturbing it. This would especially hold true when I'm using the powder.

Because trees do not have the thread roots to give an efficient uptake of water & nutrients when they are planted (especially bare root trees), a third of those planted will die.
Those supported by a healthy mycorrhizal network are far more likely to survive.

 

[redback]

The mycorrhizal fungi that you buy has to be kept cool or cold. If it is stacked in the sun at the shop, it will be dead. This is according to a Canadian scientist I saw on the tube. You can make your own fungi compost by using mostly woodchips. If I can free woodchips, I will build a one-meter cubic bin for long term composting because these woodchips are slow to decompose.

 

[headfullofbees]

The mycorrhizal fungi that you buy has to be kept cool or cold. If it is stacked in the sun at the shop, it will be dead. This is according to a Canadian scientist I saw on the tube. You can make your own fungi compost by using mostly woodchips. If I can free woodchips, I will build a one-meter cubic bin for long term composting because these woodchips are slow to decompose.

Decomposing woodchip piles can become hot; smoking hot.

 

[Susan BBPM]

We bought a 2000L bag of woodchip for our garden (approx 1m x 1m x 2m). Plans changed and it ended up sitting on the end of our drive in full sun for 1 year. It didn't appear to break down in the slightest and there's no sign of fungal growth (so no white threads). It's now spread on the beds and looks like it'll be a long time before it breaks down. This was hardwood chips.

 

[Eeilee]

Do plants in raised bed benefit or contribute to this network or no?