Mycorrhizal network - what do you know about them/think about them?

[Susan BBPM]

I've been really into this for a while. It's part of the reason I have started growing mushroom compost. I have nothing to add because I am still learning about it, but I am on the mycorrhizal train for sure. Plants need different things but every single benefit you can help provide for them is a win for you and the plants.

I planted (seeded?) Garden Giant mushroom spawn in the food forest part of my garden last year. You can see all the white strands of fungus but we haven't yet had a crop. Probably because spring was so dry this year, but hopefully we'll be picking mushrooms in Autumn. The whole garden has woodchip paths so I'm expecting the mushrooms to spread over the entire garden in time - including to the veg beds.

 

[headfullofbees]

I never leave a bed empty, so I never have to re-inoculate.
I don't think that plants molly-coddled by humans encourage mycorrhizae, but I wouldn't want to be without them, as I also think that they tend to prove their worth in times of plant stress.

 

[redback]

There's a lot of fungi apart from mycorrhizal. I planted an indigenous gumtree lot of 18 trees probably about 20 years ago. That's where the self-sown edible mushrooms grow, and before the native trees were planted, the only naturally occurring mushrooms were under the pine trees that I have slowly removed over years for firewood. But how do we know if this is mycorrhizal fungi?
There were very large grasslands (Prairies, Pampas, Serengeti) a few hundred years ago and wouldn't they have had fungi?

 

[Susan BBPM]

I never leave a bed empty, so I never have to re-inoculate.
I don't think that plants molly-coddled by humans encourage mycorrhizae, but I wouldn't want to be without them, as I also think that they tend to prove their worth in times of plant stress.

Apparently, too much manure kills them off. Also chemical fertilizers, cultivation.

So, does the beneficial effect of adding manure to the soil life outweigh the harm it does to the fungal networks? I can't find answers to this type of question online, so I suspect no one has researched it yet.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I wonder how many species of fungi are involved, and if different ones react with different plants?
Re growing mushrooms, the initial mycelium from spores is haploid and does not produce fruiting bodies, Two of these mycelium growing next to each other will fuse and produce a diploid mycelium that will produce mushrooms.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I wonder how many species of fungi are involved, and if different ones react with different plants?
Re growing mushrooms, the initial mycelium from spores is haploid and does not produce fruiting bodies, Two of these mycelium growing next to each other will fuse and produce a diploid mycelium that will produce mushrooms.

I think it's very poorly understood. Yet it has the potential to be hugely powerful.

I think this is why so many permaculture approaches are a bit of a black box - 'just set up the right environment and let nature get on with it'.

I've sown/seeded 'Garden Giant' (King straphoria) in my garden and one of the reasons for this variety is that they dominate other varieties. So you can be sure you aren't getting a poisonous variety of mushroom taking hold rather than your eddible mushrooms. But for all I know that could be doing harm by killing off important parts of the fungal network.

My control is big tubs fed with chemicals. The tubs are in a perfect location in terms of amount of sun, protection from wind. I know that beans, squahs etc grow brilliantly in them. Can I get them growing equally well or better in garden beds. So far I haven't. Everything else grows better in the ground, but not the squash and beans. They grow in the ground - but not as well as chemically fed, perfectly watered and tended, tubs.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I've sown/seeded 'Garden Giant' (King straphoria) in my garden and one of the reasons for this variety is that they dominate other varieties. So you can be sure you aren't getting a poisonous variety of mushroom taking hold rather than your edible mushrooms.

Poisonous fungi grow on wood rather than grass, except for 'magic mushrooms' which look nothing like the ordinary edibles. It is only if a bit of wood has got buried there can be a problem, and if it looks like a mushroom, with black gills and it peels, and smells like one, it is one. I have been walking through orchards picking and eating them for seventy years and haven't got it wrong yet.

 

[pepper]

Poisonous fungi grow on wood rather than grass, except for 'magic mushrooms' which look nothing like the ordinary edibles. It is only if a bit of wood has got buried there can be a problem, and if it looks like a mushroom, with black gills and it peels, and smells like one, it is one. I have been walking through orchards picking and eating them for seventy years and haven't got it wrong yet.

Lots of poisonous fungi grow in lots of different environments and they can have lots of different colored gills and spores. They often look just like a type of edible mushroom. The deathcap for example can be found in a yard and has white gills. (Not my picture). And it also smells sweet, like fruity honey.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

and has white gills

That's the giveaway, and it doesn't smell right, and I think it probably wouldn't peel.

Also this,
"Deathcap is a mycorrhizal fungi and largely lives off the roots of trees, releasing nutrients back into the soil for reabsorption by plants, and therefore plays a vital role in the woodland ecosystem."
You won't find it in open meadow.

However, I would be wary if I were not in the UK, I have no idea what grows elsewhere.

 

[MiniOrchardDude]

When I first saw Avatar way back when it first came out. I said to myself hey got there network idea from Mycorrhizal. Then when I read the no-til gardening method a light bulb went off. Why destroy that network. I rarely turn the soil. Only do it in raised beds when they need replenishing.

MOD

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[Oliver Buckle]

When I first saw Avatar way back when it first came out. I said to myself hey got there network idea from Mycorrhizal. Then when I read the no-til gardening method a light bulb went off. Why destroy that network. I rarely turn the soil. Only do it in raised beds when they need replenishing.

MOD

​

I have had similar thoughts, but then wonder if the way fungi can grow from a small piece am I maybe increasing the numbers of mycelia by breaking them up?

 

[pepper]

That's the giveaway, and it doesn't smell right, and I think it probably wouldn't peel.

Also this,
"Deathcap is a mycorrhizal fungi and largely lives off the roots of trees, releasing nutrients back into the soil for reabsorption by plants, and therefore plays a vital role in the woodland ecosystem."
You won't find it in open meadow.

However, I would be wary if I were not in the UK, I have no idea what grows elsewhere.

That could be true that only edible ones grow in meadows, I don't know. I still wouldn't take the chance that there might have been a giant oak in the meadow that's now rotting in the ground. There is only a few wild mushroom verities I'll harvest and eat but I love growing them, there are a lot of freaky looking fungi that have been popping up on my rotting logs, it's really interesting.

 

[Susan BBPM]

I have had similar thoughts, but then wonder if the way fungi can grow from a small piece am I maybe increasing the numbers of mycelia by breaking them up?

According to this article, fungal networks have shown in many studies to be hugely important in protecting against disease and insect attacks as well as providing nutrients, Those studies also show that tilling is harmful.

BUT it touches on the fact that virtually all studies compare no-till with land previously stripped of organic matter and nutrients through bad farming practices. What the studies don't show is a comparison between no-till and till with GOOD farming practices.

"An interesting observation to take from these findings is that tillage – a key feature of organic arable production, and therefore a practice whose impacts were captured in the studies mentioned above – can clearly be compatible with healthy mycorrhizal communities. Still, there is evidence from one study finding that a reduction in tillage intensity in organic production does lead to even higher mycorrhizal spore densities and species richness."

More things in Heaven and Earth: Mycorrhizal fungi, ploughing, no-till and glyphosate | Sustainable Food Trust

SFT Policy Director, Richard Young, lifts the lid on mycorrhizal fungi and the impacts that ploughing, direct drilling and glyphosate can have on them.

sustainablefoodtrust.org

 

[redback]

I don't understand fungi.
1. Is writing mycorrhizal fungi the same as writing 'fungi fungi'? Are there any fungi without an extensive root (hyphae) system? Everyone says the mushrooms are just the flowers so all fungi must be mostly root.
2. Is the presence of fungi a guarantee of good soil? Fungi are the great decomposers - of plants, animals, trees and rocks. Given they are also yeast and can ferment as well as decompose surely, they will improve all soils.
3. The weight of fungi is said to exceed the weight of a cow standing on top of the soil they occupy. In fact, their combined total weight is more than all humans on earth. They must represent a lot of organic matter under the soil which must surely entice worms and all other forms of life to come and aerate the soil. If the fungi are always accompanied by microbes than fertility is guaranteed.
I'm looking for Merlin Sheldrake's 'Entangled life' book. This is obviously a subject with very little past and a lot of current research.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Neither do I!

According to Google:

"A mycorrhiza is a symbiotic association between a fungus and a plant. The term mycorrhiza refers to the role of the fungus in the plant's rhizosphere, its root system"

I know that trees and woody plants need fungus to feed them, whereas green plants like vegetables need bacteria. If you create a great environment for trees by putting down woodchip (such as Back to Eden) your veg won't grow well in that soil as it lacks bacteria.