Mycorrhizal network - what do you know about them/think about them?

[Susan BBPM]

For anyone that hasn't yet come across this, mycorrhizal networks are vast, microscopic threads of fungus that spread underground linking plants together. The plants provide the fungi carbon-rich sugars made by photosynthesis, and in return they get nutrients, such as phosphorus and nitrogen, that the fungi scavenge from the soil. As the mycorrhizal networks cover huge areas they are able to provide nutrients and water to plants that the plants roots are unable to reach.

Apparently, 90% of plants can make use of the mycorrhizal networks. Brassicas can't.

Interested in peoples thoughts on the contribution provided by the fungal networks and also how they can best be utilized.

My understanding is that vegetables primarily need bacteria in the soil to provide them with food, but it seems that for most veg the ability to hook into established mycorrhizal networks is a (big?) bonus?

Trees seem to be the main 'driver' in helping these networks develop. So, presumably the way in which you plant non-veg crops in your garden can actually provide your veg beds with a support network of water and nutrients.

So, whilst veg grows best if provided with compost to build soil life, trees and shrubs prefer woodchip to help build the fungal networks. This suggests to me that having a food forest beside your veg garden, or even hedgerow around your veg garden is going to benefit your veg?

 

[Susan BBPM]

Interesting:

"When broad bean plants come under attack by aphids, they release chemicals that not only repel their attackers, but also attract wasps that prey on the aphids. It’s an ingenious, two-pronged defence strategy.

Prof David Johnson, a microbial ecologist at the University of Manchester, wanted to find out if mycorrhizal networks could be used to send out advance warnings, letting plants know that an attack is on its way.


To do this, he introduced aphids to plants and watched how their neighbours reacted. “What we found was that plants have the same response when their neighbour is attacked,” he says, “but only when their root systems are connected by these common mycorrhizal fungal networks.”


This fungal communication is slow, more dial-up than broadband, but nevertheless it seems to be playing a role in relaying messages between plants about everything from hungry caterpillars to harmful pathogens."

Mycorrhizal networks: how trees talk through the wood-wide web | BBC Science Focus Magazine

There’s evidence that trees communicate via a vast, underground network of fungal connections – we dive into the murky world of mycorrhizal threads.

www.sciencefocus.com

 

[redback]

I was amazed to find there is a commercial supplier of mycorrhizal fungi. It is being used in the inoculant for seeds in Regen Ag.

 

[DirtMechanic]

You are making my head hurt.

Mainly because I chased this once.

But there was a youtube video that gave me clarity and made @Meadowlark question my integrity.

Let me find it for you.

here is one, not THE one, but carbon, oxygen and hydrogen are the most important nutrients.

Here is one. Closer to what I saw anyway before my time to edit this post runs out.

 

[redback]

Thanks for that view of the inner workings. The fungi is an electronic telegraph as well as a railway line delivering to your door.

 

[Susan BBPM]

We have four beagles that share our garden. So there are various areas inside the garden that are fenced off from them to give the plants a fighting chance!

In the 'outer garden' we have mainly mowed lawn surrounded by sweeping areas of wild flower meadow with patches of sunflowers and sunchokes for structure - this is being gradually transitioned into woodland/food forest. Several large fruit trees have been planted among it and over the years we plan to phase out the suchokes and sunflowers and phase in 'fruit tree guild' plants. So in a way we're speeding up the natural transition from baren land to forest. This is the area where we let nature take charge. We let things self-seed, pruning out what we don't want and introducing things we do want. We use a lot of chop and drop to improve the soil, and as we gradually increase the amount of woody plants being grown in this area it will switch from increasing bateria and soil life to being more fungal dominant. (that's the plan - to let this larger outer area that the dogs have access to and that's further from the house develop more naturally. Although we will of course speed up the process by adding woodchip etc as it becomes appropriate). There's also a hedgerow all along the permiter of this area with hazel, wild cherry, elder, hawthorn, blackthorn, gelder rose etc.

In one of the fenced 'inner gardens' we have a 'walled garden' effect at the top - it's kind of split in half with trelis and arches separating the two halves (trelis on the north side. That top half is bacterial dominant raised beds (no dig), and the bottom half is food forest (fungal dominant) - this time trees are on smaller root stock. The food forest is covered in woodchip. The area between the two has a lot of woody plants such as rosemary, thyme, sage etc that make use of both bacteria and fungus.

Essentially I'm wanting ideas for experiments to try and establish how the two components interact. Do veg plants with access to the fungal network do better than those relying on bacteria?

To what extent do woody perenials and trees benefit or hinder your veg garden?

We know that, left to it's own devices, land will always end up as forest. It will slowly switch from being bacterial dominant to fungal dominant. This kinda suggests that the fungal network DOESN'T benefit your veg garden as ultimately the woody plants will dominate and hog the resources.

My neighbours both have 'woodland' gardens - loads of big trees and woodchip. Are their trees using the network to leach food and resources from my veg garden? Or is my veg garden benefiting from the existing infrastructure? This is what I want to try and figure out.

 

[redback]

How big is this garden -in acres? - because it sounds big enough for veges and fruit trees and woodland. I personally wouldn't let the bacteria area (vegetables) shrink under the circumstances you described because you will end up with less diversity - wouldn't you? ...and another thing - chop down anything on the south side of the veges because they need their winter sun.
Long live the veges, biodiversity and King Charlie !

 

[Susan BBPM]

How big is this garden -in acres? - because it sounds big enough for veges and fruit trees and woodland. I personally wouldn't let the bacteria area (vegetables) shrink under the circumstances you described because you will end up with less diversity - wouldn't you? ...and another thing - chop down anything on the south side of the veges because they need their winter sun.
Long live the veges, biodiversity and King Charlie !

Ha ha - I'm in the UK. No one has acres!! LOL

I have a very large garden by UK standards, but I would guess the whole plot including the house is only about 1/4 acre. The back garden is long and narrow with a stream at the bottom. I think it's 20m wide and 50 m long.

There's a large, flat patio area at the top covered in containers (which are a pain in the neck). I'm pretty much decided I'm pulling up the slabs to build raised beds instead. These will be full of veg and flowers. Probably potager style.

Then the lawn slopes down from there and the veg raised beds are on that slope. They get full sun all day long even in winter, but they're sheltered on the NW and NE side by trelis which I normally grow peas up in the late winter so that by the time the heat loving crops go in they have shelter from the cold winds

Below the veg area is the smaller food forest (still on a slope)

The larger fruit trees were only planted this year and they're in the bottom half of the garden which is flat. Still small so sunflowers, sunchokes etc provide the structure. But they'll be phased out as we transition from wild flower meadow to woodland/food forest. It's essentially a big wild flower meadow with lovely curved shaped lawn areas mowed into it. In among the wild flower areas we've put little invisible fences and established things like sunflowers, sunchokes and various wild species of flower. We mostly let it do what it wants, self seeding etc and just pruning out anything we don't want in there. it all gets chop and dropped at the end of the season and we largely let nature do what it wants with a little guidance from us. But as the new fruit trees get bigger we'll start taking a bit more control and steering things towards plants that help a woodland develop.

The wild hedgrow is beside the stream at the very bottom. It's behind a fence (the fence keeps the dogs in) so that's a very natural habitat that we only meddle with once a year to tidy it up.

Our neighbours, and the farmland we back onto has HUGE, very old trees (our 'big' trees will top out at 12 foot). So the networks are well established around us.

What I need to try and establish is whether veg is helped by the fungal networks or hindered. It's proven that the network, sharing of resources and communication exists, but what's debated is whether it's a socialist type arangement where resources are shared fairly, or a capitalist arangement where the 'big boys' control the resources and pretty much enslave the masses - stripping them of assets. (not my analogy - I read it but thought it quite a good one).

 

[redback]

Okay I've got a clearer picture of the block now. It sounds logical with the new trees down near the creek. I see nothing wrong with the existing layout. The question of trees crowding out vegetables - the answer probably lies in the shadowing of the trees. Yes, it would be a capitalist result but not because of the tree roots. Some mycorrhizal fungus occupies well over an acre underground. I think the fungus is beneficial to veges as well as trees.

 

[roadrunner]

There's a lot more to healthy soil then just mycorrhizal fungi. Bacteria plays a huge part, along with other organisms.

This talks a little about that, but it also includes mycorrhizal fungi.

 

[Susan BBPM]

Yes - as I said in my opening post - vegetables primarily are fed by bacteria. Trees and woody plants need fungi as their primary food source.

But veggies can and do benefit from fungal networks - hence this thread. To discuss the degree to which vegetables can benefit from the fungal networks.

If you put your plants in a container (for example) how much are they disadvantaged by not having access to the fungal networks.

 

[pepper]

I've been really into this for a while. It's part of the reason I have started growing mushroom compost. I have nothing to add because I am still learning about it, but I am on the mycorrhizal train for sure. Plants need different things but every single benefit you can help provide for them is a win for you and the plants.

 

[pepper]

There is actually a lot of YouTube videos of people going to the woods to dig up tree roots to put in their garden. I think to myself get rid of that crappy grass lawn and grow some trees and wild flowers instead of killing the tree roots and any benefit they had before being slaughtered lol.

 

[redback]

If fungi are associated with 90% of the world's plants, then they must be in our vege. gardens. I think the idea of us 'using' them is ambitious. I imagine they can help the bacteria and other microbes, but I don't know how to influence the fungi.

 

[Susan BBPM]

If fungi are associated with 90% of the world's plants, then they must be in our vege. gardens. I think the idea of us 'using' them is ambitious. I imagine they can help the bacteria and other microbes, but I don't know how to influence the fungi.

Trees and woody plants are primarily fungal feeders whereas soft, green plants (like veg) are bacterial feeders.

if you think of an empty bit of barren land the observed process over time is for weeds to grow, and as they rot down and create a bacterial rich soil you get more and more green plants. Over time some of those green plants that come later get woody in the stems with age and that's when you start to get fungal breakdown and eventually an environment that supports trees. Ultimately, land left to it's own devices becomes forest.

So, if you create raised beds that are very bacteria rich to grow vegetables you aren't creating an ideal environment for trees and shrubs. Likewise, if you follow the back to eden approach and dump loads of woodchip on your soil that's a fungal environment you're creating and that's not the best for veggies. Great for a food forest of trees and shrubs though.

But it seems that veggies DO link into the fungal network. So whilst bacteria in the soil is their primary food source they are taking something from the fungal networks. If it's beneficial to the veg (net gain) it would make sense to plant trees and woody shrubs around your veg garden to boost the fungal network.

However, it's not clear whether the fungal network is 100% beneficial to the veg - it's possible that the trees are using the network to drain resources from your veg. I don't think scientists are clear on the exact mechanism. Some suggest that its a mutualy beneficial relationship, and others aruge that it's a competitive network.

If the fungal networks provide a benefit it pays to have wooded areas around your veg garden. If the fungal networks are detremental it pays to have raised beds with liners that prevent other plants stealing nutrients from your veg.

My main veg garden is split into two parts - half food forest and half raised beds. One half fungal and fed with woodchip and the other half bacterial and fed with bacteria rich organic matter. My observation tells me that the beds that AREN'T in the vacinity of my food forest do better. Suggesting that the relationship doesn't benefit the veg. But there are too many variables to know for sure at this stage. Just wondering if anyone else had observations.