Manure 101.

[pepper]

No one said anything about it being easy.

What are you advocating? Don't ask, don't tell? The more we ask, the more we bring the issue into focus.

Personally, I abhor the attitude of "just accepting"... But to each their own.

I'm not saying don't ask but people are more often then not dishonest if they are gaining something out of it. If you completely trust the word of any stranger that's great, but I've been burned enough to know not to lol. Would you buy a used truck from some stranger sight unseen and take their word it runs great or would you want to look it over first? I'm guessing look it over first. Why? Because people often lie when there is a sale to be made.

A truck you can tell if something is wrong with it. Manure and animal feed you have no idea unless you send it off to a lab to get tested, and I doubt anyone buying feed for their animals are having it tested in a lab. So that's what I am referring to as just accepting it. Most backyard gardeners with a 4x8 garden are not going to be sending shit samples to a laboratory lol, so it's simply accepting you don't really know or don't use manure at all.

 

[Meadowlark]

...Manure and animal feed you have no idea unless you send it off to a lab to get tested...Most backyard gardeners with a 4x8 garden are not going to be sending shit samples to a laboratory lol, so it's simply accepting

That simply is not True. Not at all. There is a better option than "simply accepting"

It is very easy to test for residual herbicides.

Take 4 small pots and in two of them mix in the compost with potting soil. In the other two pots, no compost just potting soil. Plant two bean seeds in each pot and see what happens. If no difference, you are home free. This takes about ten days. Costs virtually nothing. You can use other seeds, but beans are usually quick to germinate. Absolutely no labs required.

"simply accepting" is not an option at all for me and I hope not for many conscientious gardeners out there. Better to be safe than very sorry.

 

[pepper]

That simply is not True. Not at all. There is a better option than "simply accepting"

It is very easy to test for residual herbicides.

Take 4 small pots and in two of them mix in the compost with potting soil. In the other two pots, no compost just potting soil. Plant two bean seeds in each pot and see what happens. If no difference, you are home free. This takes about ten days. Costs virtually nothing. You can use other seeds, but beans are usually quick to germinate. Absolutely no labs required.

"simply accepting" is not an option at all for me and I hope not for many conscientious gardeners out there. Better to be safe than very sorry.

That's a good point. But in total honesty and not saying I am right but I'd have to see it to believe that aged well composted manure mixed into a garden would have enough chemicals left to have any real impact on a garden. It would be so minor of an amount after being composted and mixed into the garden getting washed away with rain I just can't see it unless someone is using pure manure in pots.

 

[Meadowlark]

... I'd have to see it to believe that aged well composted manure mixed into a garden would have enough chemicals left to have any real impact on a garden. ...

LOL. Millions say otherwise including AI in response to questions...but go with "simply accepting" and I will go with "Ask first and if in doubt test it yourself" Simply accepting is NOT an option.

 

[pepper]

LOL. Millions say otherwise including AI in response to questions...but go with "simply accepting" and I will go with "Ask first and if in doubt test it yourself" Simply accepting is NOT an option.

If millions of people believed that then the companies selling billions of tons of manure would be bankrupt lol. It's like people who think a plastic water hoses or anything synthetic in their garden is going to give them cancer so they spend a fortune on non synthetic thinking all the pollution in the world is somehow not in their home and garden lol. It's impossible to get away from anything that is pesticides or plastic or synthetic unless someone believes they are living in a matrix on another planet

The small handful of people on this forum and a few YouTube videos is the first I ever heard of it being a concern. It sure doesn't seem to be a concern come spring when the stores are selling tons of bagged manure to repeat customers every year. There is only a small percentage of people who garden compared to those that don't so I'd say it's the majority of gardeners buying the manure and content with the results. That's where the conspiracy theories don't make me jump on and join the omg band wagon lol.

 

[Meadowlark]

Conspiracy theories, LOL...keep moving the goalposts and "simply accepting"... and I will ask and test when needed.

 

[Meadowlark]

... That's where the conspiracy theories don't make me jump on and join the omg band wagon lol.

What? Aren't you a great proponent of AI? Or only when it agrees with you?

I asked Bing AI "Is there a chance of harmful herbicide residue in compost?"

"Yes, there is a chance that herbicide residue can be found in compost. Compost and soil mix products sometimes contain herbicide residue. This residue can damage certain vegetable, fruit and flower crops. The residue likely comes from contaminated hay, grass clippings or manure. These materials may make their way into the regional composting system. Clopyralid and aminopyralid are examples of herbicides that persist through the composting process1.

If you are concerned about herbicide contamination in your compost, you can contact the vendor before purchasing a bulk load of compost or soil mix and ask how they handle herbicide contamination risk. You can also perform your own bioassay test by testing the material before you apply a compost or soil mix product to your garden or landscape. Watch your plants for herbicide injury such as distorted growth and cupped leaves. "

Conspiracy theories, not hardly. Simply accept...not in my lifetime!!!

 

[Tetters]

Ha ha, that sorted that one out then LOL LOL LOL

 

[pepper]

What? Aren't you a great proponent of AI? Or only when it agrees with you?

I asked Bing AI "Is there a chance of harmful herbicide residue in compost?"

"Yes, there is a chance that herbicide residue can be found in compost. Compost and soil mix products sometimes contain herbicide residue. This residue can damage certain vegetable, fruit and flower crops. The residue likely comes from contaminated hay, grass clippings or manure. These materials may make their way into the regional composting system. Clopyralid and aminopyralid are examples of herbicides that persist through the composting process1.

If you are concerned about herbicide contamination in your compost, you can contact the vendor before purchasing a bulk load of compost or soil mix and ask how they handle herbicide contamination risk. You can also perform your own bioassay test by testing the material before you apply a compost or soil mix product to your garden or landscape. Watch your plants for herbicide injury such as distorted growth and cupped leaves. "

Conspiracy theories, not hardly. Simply accept...not in my lifetime!!!

Now you are getting personal bringing my AI friend into it Joke. I don't dispute there is chemicals in the manure. I know there is, just like there's the same chemicals in everything I eat from the grocery store and probably more. What I dispute is that it has a significant effect on gardens. There is a possibility to every scenario so I'm not saying it's impossible that a farmer mixes the ratio so heavy that the horse is crapping more chemicals then the toilets in grand Central station but realistically it doesn't seem to be having much or an affect most often. Welcome to 2023, everything is pollution and chemicals, it's life now. As I said before, unless someone believes they are living in a matrix on another planet they are not getting away from chemicals in their day to day life. But that doesn't mean it's total mass devastation in gardens around the world who use manure lol.

 

[zigs]

But that doesn't mean it's total mass devastation in gardens around the world who use manure lol.

No, but it could cost you your organic certificate lol.

 

[pepper]

What? Aren't you a great proponent of AI? Or only when it agrees with you?

I asked Bing AI "Is there a chance of harmful herbicide residue in compost?"

"Yes, there is a chance that herbicide residue can be found in compost. Compost and soil mix products sometimes contain herbicide residue. This residue can damage certain vegetable, fruit and flower crops. The residue likely comes from contaminated hay, grass clippings or manure. These materials may make their way into the regional composting system. Clopyralid and aminopyralid are examples of herbicides that persist through the composting process1.

If you are concerned about herbicide contamination in your compost, you can contact the vendor before purchasing a bulk load of compost or soil mix and ask how they handle herbicide contamination risk. You can also perform your own bioassay test by testing the material before you apply a compost or soil mix product to your garden or landscape. Watch your plants for herbicide injury such as distorted growth and cupped leaves. "

Conspiracy theories, not hardly. Simply accept...not in my lifetime!!!

Just to add I think it's a great idea to plant the beans as you mentioned, I totally agree. I had even mentioned doing that but with pepper plants using multiple bags of manure from the store. The only point I am making is I would bet most often they will do just as good but likely better then the beans in the pot without the manure mixed in.

If you want to make that bet I'm game. Just a friendly bet but the outcome decides if bagged manure is the worst of the worst and toxic to a garden. If you trust me to do the experiment honestly then great. If not I understand and I am completely fine and trusting if you want to do it. A few beans, some bagged manure and soil in a pot is all we need to do.

No, but it could cost you your organic certificate lol.

Most people who sell animal feed unless they are a giant source to stores don't have an organic licence for it, not around here anyway. People food yes, some random farmer who sells to local hobby farms for animals, no. But I'm sure plenty of people lie about things being organic anyway, it's like saying all people are honest when they do their taxes lol.

 

[Meadowlark]

...The only point I am making is I would bet most often they will do just as good but likely better then the beans in the pot without the manure mixed in.

If you want to make that bet I'm game. ...

Of course, the odds heavily favor that. That would be a stupid bet and I'm not stupid.

I'm also not "simply accepting" as you recommend. That would be foolish and I'm also not a fool. Ask first and test if in doubt.

 

[pepper]

Of course, the odds heavily favor that. That would be a stupid bet and I'm not stupid.

I'm also not "simply accepting" as you recommend. That would be foolish and I'm also not a fool. Ask first and test if in doubt.

I know you are not stupid or a fool. But you just proved my point that there are not "millions" of people having major negative affects on their gardens do to chemicals in manure and most manure is fine. Reality is most gardeners are not going to do a test because the odds are so slim that it will devastate their garden for years to come is not even a thought in their head, or mine. If they do the test it is far more likely it will be fine. So I am not jumping on the omg band wagon and will do what 95% of other gardeners do and just accept manure isn't the same as it was before all the chemicals.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I'm not surprised, people 'simply accept' much worse things, like mercury and carbon tetrachloride in water supplies, or radioactivity in fished seas. Gardeners may not all be highly intelligent, or formally educated, but being out there seeing the insects, birds, the way things grow, and the way these things change from the influence of man night account for why they discuss it.

 

[pepper]

I'm not surprised, people 'simply accept' much worse things, like mercury and carbon tetrachloride in water supplies, or radioactivity in fished seas. Gardeners may not all be highly intelligent, or formally educated, but being out there seeing the insects, birds, the way things grow, and the way these things change from the influence of man night account for why they discuss it.

I love birds, insects, watching things grow. I love nature. But I am also a realistic minded person who takes notice that most people no longer take time to notice those things because they are counting their money not butterflies. As each generation grows and dies a new generation does more harm to the world then the last one, it is why the polition is the way it is. I never said I was happy about it but I'm not going to become a grumpy negative person thinking I can stop people from revolving around technology and moving further away from nature.