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[zigs]

Going back to the point of starting this thread, what I was trying to point out is that both graphs show the same information.

Neither is denying that there seems to be a temperature rise of 1.5 degrees over 80 years.

It's just that the first one is trying to scare the living daylights out of everyone.

The second one is just pointing it out without the dramatic colours and exagerated curves.

Why did they make the first graph so dramatically scary?

This isn't a conspiracy ( at least not on our part) it's someone setting out to deliberately mislead the public.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

The Isle of Oxney itself was once an island, and the river Rother only continued a few miles past Bodiam before meeting the sea, that's why Bodiam castle. That coast was regularly raided by French pirates. Same is true of Romney marsh, once all sea, but there people used the gravel that washed along the coast and deposited to build up the land.
That 4" was a world wide average, yes levels must go up and down from all sorts of causes, like high and low pressure weather events just as land goes up and down locally, the downs were once the bottom of a shallow sea, well it was shallow by the time all those skeletons had been deposited
I am willing to believe that NASA, with regularly circling satellites, have collected enough data on enough places and occasions to give a bloody good estimate, and not all academics bow to economic pressure to give false results, it's more than a bit insulting to suggest they do.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Deliberate deception, or just two different ways of presenting the information? It doesn't seem to have deceived you, and presumably anyone else who read the numbers would come to the 1.5 degree conclusion. Not everybody is out to deceive or sell their integrity, give them a break.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I wonder if there was a conversation that went, "Shall we colour it blue at the coldest changing to red at the warmest?" , "Why not? A lot of people find graphs boring, might brighten it up a bit". Most people don't have devious sinister intent, whatever those who do tend to believe.

 

[zigs]

I'm not suggesting any American institution relying on tax payers money give false results. I believe all of them.

Just like the recent weather forecasts where anything over 30c was painted black.

 

[Tetters]

Deliberate deception, or just two different ways of presenting the information? It doesn't seem to have deceived you, and presumably anyone else who read the numbers would come to the 1.5 degree conclusion. Not everybody is out to deceive or sell their integrity, give them a break.

I'm not into Geology and all that clever stuff like Zigs has studied for years, but that graph certainly fooled me until it was pointed out just how deceptive it was. I think it deceived a lot of people on the AOL article as well, because it created a very long discussion. That became apparent as I saw how enlightened some of them became - they hadn't noticed that the actual change was minimal as it seemed so scary.
Give us a break too Oliver please.

 

[roadrunner]

We have a huge hotel situated on the beach just down the street. It started out as the Sea Turtle inn (in 1972) and is now One Ocean Resort & Spa.

The ocean still looks about the same distance from the building.


I've looked at many pictures from the '70's. I know this is only one location and sea level rise is not symmetrical, but it does seem to be the case in so many other areas. Not to mention, there are tons of construction still going on today along the world's coasts. Obama recently just dropped 12-million bucks on an oceanfront mansion.

I don't doubt the oceans will rise beyond their current level, but I do think there is a lot of hyperbole here, just like in other areas of this topic.

There in another report that just came out of so-called ghost forest, blamed on sea level rise in North Carolina. However, I'm betting there may be other factors, such as dredging, which can cause higher tides. Or possibly, salt water intrusion into an aquifer. When aquifers are depleted by humans, salt water intrusion will happen, not from sea level rise, rather from decreased pressure from the fresh water that was in the aquifer.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million house on Martha's Vineyard. Take a look inside the 7-bedroom waterfront mansion.

The nearly 7,000-square-foot home, whose asking price was $14.85 million, sits on 29 waterfront acres on Martha's Vineyard, an affluent vacation hotspot.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[Tetters]

I wonder if there was a conversation that went, "Shall we colour it blue at the coldest changing to red at the warmest?" , "Why not? A lot of people find graphs boring, might brighten it up a bit". Most people don't have devious sinister intent, whatever those who do tend to believe.

Oliver, with respect, I wonder if you have really understood what Zigs has tried to point out in his graph. Your above statement appears to imply that we have ''sinister intent''
Once, probably just as trusting as you seem to be, but now, having suffered very detrimental results personally I for one have found my trust to have totally vanished. It might pay you to think about it and maybe have a slightly more open mind before offering up so much sarcasm.

 

[zigs]

We have a huge hotel situated on the beach just down the street. It started out as the Sea Turtle inn (in 1972) and is now One Ocean Resort & Spa.

The ocean still looks about the same distance from the building.


I've looked at many pictures from the '70's. I know this is only one location and sea level rise is not symmetrical, but it does seem to be the case in so many other areas. Not to mention, there are tons of construction still going on today along the world's coasts. Obama recently just dropped 12-million bucks on an oceanfront mansion.

I don't doubt the oceans will rise beyond their current level, but I do think there is a lot of hyperbole here, just like in other areas of this topic.

There in another report that just came out of so-called ghost forest, blamed on sea level rise in North Carolina. However, I'm betting there may be other factors, such as dredging, which can cause higher tides. Or possibly, salt water intrusion into an aquifer. When aquifers are depleted by humans, salt water intrusion will happen, not from sea level rise, rather from decreased pressure from the fresh water that was in the aquifer.

The Obamas reportedly just bought a $12 million house on Martha's Vineyard. Take a look inside the 7-bedroom waterfront mansion.

The nearly 7,000-square-foot home, whose asking price was $14.85 million, sits on 29 waterfront acres on Martha's Vineyard, an affluent vacation hotspot.

www.businessinsider.com

I agree Roadrunner, there was a shock horror news report a few months ago that firmly planted the blame for a village being flooded by the sea on the sea level rising due to "global warming."

If you looked into it a bit more, the village was being swamped by the sea, but only because all the mangroves that previously protected it from the sea had been cut down to make commercial prawn farms.

The overall rise in sea level of 4 inches (which, according to NASA's own website, 2 inches of which are due to the sea expanding, no mention of it contracting around the polar regions) didn't make a blind bit of difference to this village.

If 4 inches had been a problem they could have built a very low wall

 

[zigs]

I wonder if there was a conversation that went, "Shall we colour it blue at the coldest changing to red at the warmest?" , "Why not? A lot of people find graphs boring, might brighten it up a bit". Most people don't have devious sinister intent, whatever those who do tend to believe.

Yes Oliver, as Tetters pointed out, most people, including us, don't have devious sinister intent. But it seems a few people do. They didn't put the colours in to make it pretty, it wasn't primary school where they want to impress teacher.

They did it and are doing it to scare the living daylights out of people.

There are kids growing up today that are falling for all this BS, they think that they have no future, that the planet is going to burn up and the only thing they can do is glue themselves to a motorway to stop people driving.

That's what's happening when people produce charts like this, they are causing panic.

I wish I was wrong. I'd like to wake up one day and find I don't need to start a thread like this because no one is trying to deceive anyone, but so far, it's not happening....

 

[redback]

The beach I went to as a boy is still exactly the same sea level now as it was then.
The new temperatures include oceanographic and stratospheric readings that were never included in the old temperature readings. At what level in the oceans and stratosphere are these readings taken you might ask.

There are about eight weather stations in the Antarctic and eight thousand in the Northern temperate zone. So, what we are recording is an increase in the temperature of large urban centers. Yes, these are increasing.

It's all founded on algorithms which are entirely the toy of those manipulating them.
Climate change of course, but global warming is very, very suspect.

 

[redback]

That four inches is from satellite measurement and is pretty accurate, unless you believe there is a conspiracy to deceive involving the whole of NASA. It is an overall measurement.

The sea is not level, and the earth rises and falls. The currents and waves vary the sea level by tens of meters in height.
There is no earth temperature. If it's -20F in Siberia and +20F in Patagonia does that mean the earth's temperature is zero. The whole concept of a single earth's temperature is bonkers.
Al Gore predicted (in 2007 I think) in his film, 'An Inconvenient Truth' that the sea level would rise by 6 meters by 2020. His prediction was wrong by 6 meters. When I put this to a couple of greenies in 2021, they said everyone makes mistakes. I'm a greenie but this global warming nonsense is unbelievable.

 

[zigs]

The beach I went to as a boy is still exactly the same sea level now as it was then.
The new temperatures include oceanographic and stratospheric readings that were never included in the old temperature readings. At what level in the oceans and stratosphere are these readings taken you might ask.

There are about eight weather stations in the Antarctic and eight thousand in the Northern temperate zone. So, what we are recording is an increase in the temperature of large urban centers. Yes, these are increasing.

It's all founded on algorithms which are entirely the toy of those manipulating them.
Climate change of course, but global warming is very, very suspect.

Indeed Redback, there are now so many more urban areas with concrete, tarmac, heating systems and engines that it's almost impossible to get an accurate reading, these areas simply didn't exist when they started recording temperatures, the only city with a million + was London

The climate has alway changed and always will.

 

[zigs]

The sea is not level, and the earth rises and falls. The currents and waves vary the sea level by tens of meters in height.
There is no earth temperature. If it's -20F in Siberia and +20F in Patagonia does that mean the earth's temperature is zero. The whole concept of a single earth's temperature is bonkers.

Exactly, the climate alarmists try to scare people with a 1.6 degree rise but it goes from freezing to really hot from the middle to the top of the Earth. Planet seems to cope fine with that. We might get uncomfortable when it gets hot but what we can't cope with is it freezing over again like it did for millions of years.

Cold kills far more people than heat does.

 

[zigs]

Al Gore predicted (in 2007 I think) in his film, 'An Inconvenient Truth' that the sea level would rise by 6 meters by 2020. His prediction was wrong by 6 meters. When I put this to a couple of greenies in 2021, they said everyone makes mistakes. I'm a greenie but this global warming nonsense is unbelievable.

I'm glad you added that. Like you, I have no desire to pollute the planet, we recycle as much as we can, we grow our own food and have solar back up power which charges our garden tools, phones etc, but we are under no illusion that what we do is "green" we know the solar panels are produced by coal power in China and the lithium comes from raping the Atacama desert and destroying habitats.

But we know what the climate alarmists are saying is utter rubbish.

Last I checked it still had ice on it...