Trimming non-sucker limb on tomato plant question.

[smitty55]

If I removed suckers and limbs below trusses ALL of my tomatoes would have sunscald. As far as weight is concerned here in Texas we MUST use cages or stakes and tie them up. Here ambient temperatures is what determines a tomatoes size. 95F and tomatoes stop getting larger so in high temperature regions size is of much lessor concern than quantity. It has been 95F+ here since mid May.

Yea I'm up in Ontario so we are dealing with a totally different climate for sure. Never had sun scald here, although one extremely hot summer I did have an issue with thickening skins which ended up splitting as the tomatoes grew. I use 8ft stakes here on mine as they are way too tall for cages even with our much shorter growing season. If I had the length of season I'm sure they would hit 15 ft tall.
Here's an example of how large some can get. This is an Andrew Rahart heirloom that is over 2 1/2 lb. A sucker could never support these.

 

[cntrlwagdnr]

You Brits overthink your tomatoes. We have not found any difference between heirlooms and hybrids - except more and nicer fruit on hybrids, of course - that's why they breed them. We plant them and don't mess with them and use a cage support. The only pruning they get is if a branch or two gets way out of hand. Told my wife once we ought to try pruning like I used to in the UK. Tried 2 identical plants next to each other, one pruned, one not. The pruned one kinda looked pretty but way less fruit and hardly any bigger if at all. The other one cropped for much longer too. As far as the root argument goes, I'm sure a lot of you Brits are still using those growbag things and they work great, so I think that's all a waste of breath and effort. One of our best cherry tomatoes was a self seed that grew out of a crack in the patio! In fact, I was planning to try the growbag thing next year just for fun and use a sack of potting soil.

BTW: I was a Brit once myself. Born and lived there for 30 years. Moved to the States for work in '79, married, stayed, been a US Citizen since '92.

 

[smitty55]

I have no idea where you get the idea that I'm a Brit and if you think there is no difference between a hybrid and the indeterminate heirlooms I grow you are sorely mistaken and not worth talking to IMO. I have never tasted a tomato that even comes close to the Greeks I mostly grow, easily the best I have ever eaten and hybrids are no comparison, they are not bred for flavour that's for sure.

 

[YumYum]

If you

This is an Andrew Rahart heirloom that is over 2 1/2 lb. A sucker could never support these.

A sucker can support just as much weight as the main limb can as you still have to support both.

Here is a list of tomato varieties:

Disease-resistant tomato varieties

www.vegetables.cornell.edu

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Well, I am going to try some experimenting. The British way of growing tomatoes has worked traditionally, but climate change means things are hotting up. Things like trees leafing up and birds nesting are happening a full month earlier than they did when I was born, but take out all the side shoots and stop it at four flowers was de rigueur for my Dad at the time.

 

[headfullofbees]

Well, I am going to try some experimenting. The British way of growing tomatoes has worked traditionally, but climate change means things are hotting up. Things like trees leafing up and birds nesting are happening a full month earlier than they did when I was born, but take out all the side shoots and stop it at four flowers was de rigueur for my Dad at the time.

Things are not hotting up.
The difference in temperature FROM PRE-INDUSTRIAL TIMES, claimed by climate alarmists is an average of 1.2C, but five times as much heating at the poles as in the tropics.
It is also the case that the overwhelming amount of natural climate change is affecting night-time minimum temperatures, not day-time highs.
This means that if you believe you can feel it, that is down to suggestion, not higher temperature. Humans are not temperature-sensitive enough to actually feel the difference.

 

[headfullofbees]

Well, I am going to try some experimenting. The British way of growing tomatoes has worked traditionally, but climate change means things are hotting up. Things like trees leafing up and birds nesting are happening a full month earlier than they did when I was born, but take out all the side shoots and stop it at four flowers was de rigueur for my Dad at the time.

Try getting deep roots in a gro-bag.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

There is an ongoing study of blue tits in woods near oxford that started in 1947. They have consistently been breeding earlier and are now a full month earlier than then. Great tits time their egg laying and hatching to coincide with new leaves which are eaten by caterpillars on oak trees, that study has not been going so long, but it is getting the same sort of pattern. Something is going on, maybe night time minimums are important ? I don't know.
I always have a few extra that come outside when they get to big and get planted out, it helps extend the season, I have given a couple of them much longer canes than usual, i'll try letting them set more flowers than the usual four bunches and see how they compare.
Not very scientific, but it will give me an inkling. I shall still take the side shoots ot as I had already started, but I am thinking of doing one where I keep a couple of the stronger base shoots next time.

 

[headfullofbees]

There is an ongoing study of blue tits in woods near oxford that started in 1947. They have consistently been breeding earlier and are now a full month earlier than then. Great tits time their egg laying and hatching to coincide with new leaves which are eaten by caterpillars on oak trees, that study has not been going so long, but it is getting the same sort of pattern. Something is going on, maybe night time minimums are important ? I don't know.
I always have a few extra that come outside when they get to big and get planted out, it helps extend the season, I have given a couple of them much longer canes than usual, i'll try letting them set more flowers than the usual four bunches and see how they compare.
Not very scientific, but it will give me an inkling. I shall still take the side shoots ot as I had already started, but I am thinking of doing one where I keep a couple of the stronger base shoots next time.

When I grow peas & beans, I try to save enough for seed, as I find I get far better germination from saved seed. Is THAT because the parent seed has, by growing, shown its suitability for the area & handed down that advantage to its off-spring? Is it just the handling or storage of the seed?
There are a number of variables.
Perhaps blue tits are changing, becoming hardier? Perhaps the flora/fauna is changing? Perhaps it's the natural 70-year cycle? Perhaps as people wasted more food, or since it has become more common that people buy wild bird food, more has been fed to wild birds & they have been adapting to the advantages of that feeding?
There are a number of variables, but those with an agenda to push, (& I'm not suggesting you for a moment) will try their best to attribute everything they can to associate everything they can with their particular interest.
Look how far North they inhabit:

Eurasian blue tit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Humans came out of East Africa, yet have adapted to Siberia.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Check out the Wytham wood study, It is run by Oxford University and has been going so long it has involved an awful lot of people, so agendas shouldn't have affected it too much. It is a SSI, very rural and the birds tend to stay local, so not affected by feeding. Well north, I noticed there was a study of their arrival and increase in Finland.

Regarding saving seed, someone did a study of immigrants who had brought veg. seed with them and grown on allotments over here. They had been saving seed and replanting for over ten years, and the researchers compared their plants to seed specially produced for the UK market by seed companies in recent years. The allotment guys far outperformed, it seems that a period of human selection has very definite results. Presumably you save seed from plants that grow well, after a few years you should have plants particularly suited to your local environment.

As to the germination, my guess is that you are more careful about selection and drying. If a commercial operation is looking to harvest and dry 100lbs of beans (say) they are not going to be too fussy so long as they hit a minimum germination rate.

 

[headfullofbees]

Check out the Wytham wood study, It is run by Oxford University and has been going so long it has involved an awful lot of people, so agendas shouldn't have affected it too much. It is a SSI, very rural and the birds tend to stay local, so not affected by feeding. Well north, I noticed there was a study of their arrival and increase in Finland.

Regarding saving seed, someone did a study of immigrants who had brought veg. seed with them and grown on allotments over here. They had been saving seed and replanting for over ten years, and the researchers compared their plants to seed specially produced for the UK market by seed companies in recent years. The allotment guys far outperformed, it seems that a period of human selection has very definite results. Presumably you save seed from plants that grow well, after a few years you should have plants particularly suited to your local environment.

As to the germination, my guess is that you are more careful about selection and drying. If a commercial operation is looking to harvest and dry 100lbs of beans (say) they are not going to be too fussy so long as they hit a minimum germination rate.

It is, or was, a study which began with no agenda, but like every weather event which suits, has been hijacked to push the climate change agenda.
I'm not saying climate doesn't change, on the contrary, it's the norm, but, like I said previously, there are too many variables.
What else has happened since 1947?
2 things which immediately spring to mind are Dutch Elm Disease & Ash Dieback.
So what would the effect be if this had caused a thinning of tree density, allowing more sunlight through, would it be to warm lower layers of the forest, where birds breed?
Rotting wood is exothermic & harbours more insect life than healthy wood.
How much of an effect would an increased food source, available earlier in the year, have?

Also, there is the involvement of David Attenborough & he has been shown to be a climate fraud on a number of occasions, & I would touch anything he had with a bargepole.

 

[Meadowlark]

When I grow peas & beans, I try to save enough for seed, as I find I get far better germination from saved seed. Is THAT because the parent seed has, by growing, shown its suitability for the area & handed down that advantage to its off-spring? Is it just the handling or storage of the seed?
There are a number of variables.

Interesting discussion on seed saving. In my World, seed saving is becoming more and more important to me. Since COVID, I have experienced a significant decline in the utility and availability of commercial seeds. Germination rates significantly down both in % of germination achieved and in uniformity of germination time which is particularly important when home growing corn.

My motivation to save seeds is definitely increasing and I would like to learn more about techniques for a variety of different veggies.

 

[headfullofbees]

In the UK heirloom corn isn't really viable, apart from in the far South.
We have found one hybrid which is stable to Filial 3, & that is Swift F1, so I'd suspect others may be stable too.
Germination rates tend to be poor here too, hence the interest in saving.
When sowing corn, I put two seeds per module in a 15 cell insert. with a decent sowing medium.
On the day prior to sowing, I make smokewater, from woodsmoke bubbled through a bucket of water, using an aquarium aerator & an air stone. (I burn the wood on my greenhouse floor, which is concrete, & concentrates the smoke in the atmosphere.
I soak the seed kernels in this water overnight, & sow next day, using the smokewater again to water the growing medium.
Perhaps you may find this interesting, as it's also very good for tomatoes, onions & lettuce. Mays are grasses:

Potential of Karrikins as Novel Plant Growth Regulators in Agriculture

Karrikins (KARs) have been identified as molecules derived from plant material smoke, which have the capacity to enhance seed germination for a wide range of plant species. However, KARs were observed to not only impact seed germination but also observed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Meadowlark]

Fascinating article. I have never heard that before but don't doubt its effect. Seems it might be a bit difficult to apply KARS in the home garden, but it would very much apply to corn. It is important that each corn seed germinate at the same time so that pollination will occur later at roughly the same time. KARS application could help that significantly.

Very interesting, indeed.

 

[headfullofbees]

Fascinating article. I have never heard that before but don't doubt its effect. Seems it might be a bit difficult to apply KARS in the home garden, but it would very much apply to corn. It is important that each corn seed germinate at the same time so that pollination will occur later at roughly the same time. KARS application could help that significantly.

Very interesting, indeed.

If you can make smoke-water, & if you water your plants, you can apply KARS.
Apparently they are effective down to parts per billion.