Planting leggy transplants

[TomatoNut]

Ah. Well in that case, plant deep!

 

[TomatoNut]

Stupid storms. Chuck, do you think it might help to spread something around the base of your veggie plants to help prevent backsplash of the soil onto your plants? Keeping them clean would help keep them healthy right?

 

[Chuck]

Stupid storms. Chuck, do you think it might help to spread something around the base of your veggie plants to help prevent backsplash of the soil onto your plants? Keeping them clean would help keep them healthy right?

Yes, a layer of mulch around the base of the plants helps keep diseases such as early blight and other soil born malady's away from the plants. I don't think this rain will ever stop. Just as my garden start to dry out a little here comes another frog floater. But, I guess too wet is better than too dry.

 

[headfullofbees]

We were talking about production between deep and shallow planted plants. Of which one will produce more or less than the other. I maintain that it is impossible to know because no two plants are alike and therefore no comparison will be accurate. Yes they are the same plant, genetically identical. But when you plant two identical plants next to each other they are not identical, they produce different amounts, they look different, one has more blooms than the other etc. I maintain that if you took 10 suckers off of a plant all 10 would be different and therefore production amounts cannot be measured by anything.

They are all exactly the same genetically (the definition of clone); any difference in performance would result from the fact that it is nigh impossible to exactly replicate their circumstance.
It's not my fault, it's just a fact, not an opinion:

clone
[kləʊn]

NOUN
clones (plural noun)

1. biology
   an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical.
   "vines representing all the 15 existing clones were planted"

 

[Chuck]

They are all exactly the same genetically (the definition of clone); any difference in performance would result from the fact that it is nigh impossible to exactly replicate their circumstance.
It's not my fault, it's just a fact, not an opinion:

clone
[kləʊn]

NOUN
clones (plural noun)

1. biology
   an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical.
   "vines representing all the 15 existing clones were planted"

Exactly. It's what I've been saying. You cannot tell if deep planting is detrimental because it is impossible to know. And perhaps the bottom roots, which do not grow as large as the surface roots only affects the tap root and have nothing to do with uptake of nutrients for overall growth of the plant. Just a thought.

 

[headfullofbees]

" You cannot tell if deep planting is detrimental because it is impossible to know."

You can show, if not prove beyond a doubt:
If you plant 5 plants of each of 1 or, preferably, more than 1, cultivar, deep, and 5 shallow, and if the group consistently produces earlier than deeper group, then you know that the roots are being replaced, rather than added to, and slowing production.
Even if it's the case that the deep-plants go on to slightly out-perform the shallow, which is far from proven, the earlier production is worth more, because you are really ready for home tomatoes by then, and grow so many that, by the end of the season, your appetite for them is sated anyway.
If I remember, you posted last year, that you had gorged so much on them that you were sick of them. (I'm not pretending to quote you here, just to give the jist of that post)

Earlier production also gives you a far better chance of a worthwhile crop of beef tomatoes in your short seasons.
If what you had to do was plant early, accept the resultant legginess of the first leader, but remove it a bit later to be replaced by a sucker, would the extra work be worth your while? I ask because you say you have almost given up on beef tomatoes because of season length.

It may also be the case that cloning from suckers makes your "fall" tomato season far more worthwhile too.
In order to know, it would be helpful if you could give details, like approximate dates of your tomato growing seasons, for me to ponder.

 

[Durgan]

The ultimate tomato test is production per plant. Utility of planting; deep, shallow, horizontal, or upside down, can be assessed by weighing all harvesting during the growing season. The exercise is most revealing.

 

[headfullofbees]

As much as I hate to agree with headfullofbees,

If it's any consolation, don't think of it as agreeing with me. Think of it as accepting a fact that was decided without my input.

 

[headfullofbees]

The ultimate to,ato test is production per plant. Utility of planting; deep, shallow, horizontal, or upside down, can be assessed by weighing all harvesting during the growing season. The exercise is most revealing.

Not necessarily.
Length of season, quality, flavour are all to be taken into consideration.
For some, like farmers, who want a single harvest, or like you, who preserve most of your produce, a short season may be preferable, and that's sensible, but to me, who loves raw, fresh tomatoes, home-grown, then a steady stream of plenty for as long as possible, with any excess given away, or preserved, solely to avoid waste, then the qualities I've mentioned are far more important.

 

[Chuck]

" You cannot tell if deep planting is detrimental because it is impossible to know."

You can show, if not prove beyond a doubt:
If you plant 5 plants of each of 1 or, preferably, more than 1, cultivar, deep, and 5 shallow, and if the group consistently produces earlier than deeper group, then you know that the roots are being replaced, rather than added to, and slowing production.
Even if it's the case that the deep-plants go on to slightly out-perform the shallow, which is far from proven, the earlier production is worth more, because you are really ready for home tomatoes by then, and grow so many that, by the end of the season, your appetite for them is sated anyway.
If I remember, you posted last year, that you had gorged so much on them that you were sick of them. (I'm not pretending to quote you here, just to give the jist of that post)

Earlier production also gives you a far better chance of a worthwhile crop of beef tomatoes in your short seasons.
If what you had to do was plant early, accept the resultant legginess of the first leader, but remove it a bit later to be replaced by a sucker, would the extra work be worth your while? I ask because you say you have almost given up on beef tomatoes because of season length.

It may also be the case that cloning from suckers makes your "fall" tomato season far more worthwhile too.
In order to know, it would be helpful if you could give details, like approximate dates of your tomato growing seasons, for me to ponder.

I'll try to give you planting dates but lately, for the past 5 years or so, the weather has changed so much its hard to tell. Here, normally the planting date is April 1 but it has been getting earlier and earlier so now it is fairly safe to plant 2 weeks earlier. But not this year. March 26 had a hard frost here. This is why I lost most of my plants and had to resort to planting all those super leggy transplants. From now on it's going to be April 1, I've learned my lesson. Setting season is roughly from May 7th to about June 15th. For a fall garden, setting normally occurs from about October 1 until frost which is NEVER even close to predictable. I gave up on a fall tomato crop a long time ago. Many years we have a hard frost the first week in November but lately the first hard frost is usually around December 1

 

[Durgan]

 

[headfullofbees]

View attachment 53871

Beautiful. I have no chance of replicating that in the UK, for two reasons:
1) Light levels & climate don't permit: outdoor tomatoes are marginal in the UK, with many years late blight striking before a crop can be harvested.
2) You give your plants 6 sqft each. My tomato greenhouse is 8x6 and has a path in the middle for access. This leaves approx. 42 sqft of growing area, where your SEVEN tomatoes are replaced by EIGHTEEN of mine.

Now, I'm not saying that you have it easy all-round in North America, nor that your brains are less able, but you do, in general, have less trouble with tomatoes there, and that's what necessitates giving them more thought.

 

[TomatoNut]

Yes, a layer of mulch around the base of the plants helps keep diseases such as early blight and other soil born malady's away from the plants. I don't think this rain will ever stop. Just as my garden start to dry out a little here comes another frog floater. But, I guess too wet is better than too dry.

Maybe with all this rain, we should grow rice instead.

 

[Durgan]

Tomatoes are dead easy to grow in my area. Minor issue is short growing season max about three months. Also adverse weather affects growing some years.

 

[headfullofbees]

Tomatoes are dead easy to grow in my area. Minor issue is short growing season max about three months. Also adverse weather affects growing some years.

I obviously mean no disrespect, but do you see why I have to spend much more time thinking about how to get the best out of my conditions?
You don't tend to say how much you enjoy the flavour of your tomatoes.
If you could bring forward even a little of the harvest, by a couple of weeks, and the cost in overall yield was unimportant, wouldn't you want to?