Organic VS Chemical

[gary350]

The only objection I have is about the wood ash. It is quite alkaline and if your soils are alkaline to begin with its use may be detrimental. Urine has been used as a fertilizer for a very long time and it is full of macro and micro nutrients. Just be sure to dilute it, about 1 part urine to about 5 parts water for mature plants and 1 to 10 for seedlings.

p.s. use a wide mouthed jug to collect

It does not stay alkaline more than 2 or 3 days it evaporates away when expose to air. Most of the alkaline is from sodium hydroxide that is why wood ash makes such good lye soap. I make lots of lye soap wow this soap is good better than factory soap. Mother Earth News has good information for making lye soap. Mix fresh burned wood in water, remove sediment, boil to concentrate lye, when an egg floats in the water mix in a can of Crisco stir well keep boiling until it starts to jell the pour into soap molds. Age soap 1 month then it is ready to use. Keep a closed container of wood ash in the house you can wash dishes with it, wash clothes with it, take a shower with it. Wash your hands with wood ash see for your self its organic.

 

[Meadowlark]

Now, this thread is getting somewhere. My grandparents raised 18 kids in the Ozarks off the land. They perfected repurposing...except maybe the lye soap. Seems to me it was near caustic, but they were used to it.

I get great satisfaction out of repurposing and employing sustainable techniques.

 

[headfullofbees]

NPK ISN'T just NPK

There are three main types of Nitrogen in fertilisers Ammonia, Ureic & Nitrate.
Each are taken up differently by plants.

Phosphates are hard to break down in soil & can harm plants if the levels get high.
So they get locked into soil & at levels above 3% weaken & break mutualistic mycorrhizal relationships.

Potassium in the high levels we often see in horticultural (rather than agricultural) veg growing can do BIG damage to the soil.
They can prevent chelation of calcium, magnesium, iron, cobalt & zinc, to name a few, adsorption of fulvic acids.

Yes they DO leave persistent salts in the ground, which kill soil humates & fulvates.
Another problem may be perception, whereby amateurs believe more = better.
More than organic levels usually means worse.

 

[headfullofbees]

NPK ISN'T just NPK

There are three main types of Nitrogen in fertilisers Ammonia, Ureic & Nitrate.
Each are taken up differently by plants.

Phosphates are hard to break down in soil & can harm plants if the levels get high.
So they get locked into soil & at levels above 3% weaken & break mutualistic mycorrhizal relationships.

Potassium in the high levels we often see in horticultural (rather than agricultural) veg growing can do BIG damage to the soil.
They can prevent chelation of calcium, magnesium, iron, cobalt & zinc, to name a few, adsorption of fulvic acids.

Yes they DO leave persistent salts in the ground, which kill soil humates & fulvates.
Another problem may be perception, whereby amateurs believe more = better.
More than organic levels usually means worse.

If synthetic fertilizer is bad then why are all the people on earth still alive. If it was not for synthetic fertilizer farmers would only be able to feed 10% of earths population.

But the longer the soil is fertilised with petro-gro, the more degraded it becomes, leading farmers to leave wastelands behind them to an extent where we run out of high quality, high yielding soil.

 

[Marck]

What do you think about home made nitrogen fertilizer. Pee in empty 1 gallon milk jugs all winter & save it, save wood ash from, same organic material. Mix 1/3 of each it becomes 10-4-6 fertilizer in about 2 days according to online information.

No need to trouble with blending a recipe. Urine can just be applied as is to soil or used as 'green' material in a compost pile. The nutrients will become available to plants like with any other organic matter. Urine is already over 95% water and does not need to be further diluted when applied to soil, wood chips, or compost.

Wood ash can also be added in moderate amounts to soil. Moderation is key, don't shovel it on, until it becomes a major component of the soil.

Nutrient toxicities due to urine (or wood ash) only occur due to acute levels of over-fertilization. The classic example of this is a dog urinating on the same spot every day.

A reasonable rate would be to apply to any given garden area once a month or so. In a compost pile situation, more often.
Of course, this depends on ambient temperatures, the amount of precipitation or irrigation and numerous other factors, but qualitatively speaking this is a simple method that work for anyone with asmall to medium sized garden.

Examples from nature are everywhere. Wildlife deposits its waste products throughout a landscape. The major effect from this is redistribution of nutrients and natural fertilization. Forest fires burn, create wood ash and the forest regenerates.

These things only become a problem, when the idea that more is always better overcomes common sense.

 

[Chuck]

No need to trouble with blending a recipe. Urine can just be applied as is to soil or used as 'green' material in a compost pile. The nutrients will become available to plants like with any other organic matter. Urine is already over 95% water and does not need to be further diluted when applied to soil, wood chips, or compost.

Wood ash can also be added in moderate amounts to soil. Moderation is key, don't shovel it on, until it becomes a major component of the soil.

Nutrient toxicities due to urine (or wood ash) only occur due to acute levels of over-fertilization. The classic example of this is a dog urinating on the same spot every day.

A reasonable rate would be to apply to any given garden area once a month or so. In a compost pile situation, more often.
Of course, this depends on ambient temperatures, the amount of precipitation or irrigation and numerous other factors, but qualitatively speaking this is a simple method that work for anyone with asmall to medium sized garden.

Examples from nature are everywhere. Wildlife deposits its waste products throughout a landscape. The major effect from this is redistribution of nutrients and natural fertilization. Forest fires burn, create wood ash and the forest regenerates.

These things only become a problem, when the idea that more is always better overcomes common sense.

I can see from your post that you have never used straight urine on vegetable plants. You MIGHT get away with it once or twice but straight urine is just like putting 4 or 5 times the amount of synthetic/chemical fertilizers on a plant than recommended. It will damage a plants root system. It is MUCH safer to dilute the urine. I suppose you know how difficult it is to kill Poison Ivy. Just piss on it once a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens. And vegetable plants are not even close to being as tough as Poison Ivy.

 

[Marck]

I collect and pour urine on a wide variety of plants my garden. Even when it is applied directly to foliage, I have never seen urine 'burn' anything. Even more concentrated forms of waste such as bird droppings often fall on leaves without burning them.

A common NPK quote for urine is 11-1-2.5, but the NPK measurements of fertilizers are always done by dry weight. As already mentioned urine is diluted at least 19 parts to one by water.

Overall, I apply urine in similar amounts and frequencies to how I would apply a synthetic liquid fertilizer, such as Miracle-gro.

However, the difference is I use urine for in-ground planting and compost piles where it is only one component of the soil nutrition, along with all the other sources of organic matter that I use.

I use synthetic formulas in containers, for increased predictability and control. There, they are the primary nutrition source.

The only thing I can imagine is that some people apply urine in amounts and frequencies far higher than is necessary or beneficial.
Perhaps those people are not familiar with how to use liquid fertilizers.

 

[DirtMechanic]

Normally, you should have less than 150 milligrams (about 3 percent of a teaspoon) of protein in the urine per day. Having more than 150 milligrams per day is called proteinuria.

I find that missing protein components in an organic vs chemical fertilizer debate is to leave holes in a complete discussion. Whether urine or blood meal, organics tend to have amino acids from proteins in some quantity.

I think that is the real difference. I see the organic product miracle grow is putting out has a soy base for nitrogen. Soybean meal is nearly half protein, and the percentage of nitrogen is 5-6% of the protein value. I like it because its an edible fertilizer! Alfalfa and others have high protein content too. They all work well as a result.

I have not read anything more than plants exuding carbon attract bacteria. The BluB protein recently described by researchers at MIT makes Vitamin B12. I think I understand when everyone says plants don't need B12 the critters do. But then I also read enzymatic action by bacteria dissolves minerals which are in turn made available to the plant, so there are some connections. I understand that the biodome makes its bodies from amino acids in proteins for example so I can stretch a little further and imagine a loose relationship between biodome and plant roots. It is an interesting arena to me.

 

[gary350]

NPK ISN'T just NPK

There are three main types of Nitrogen in fertilisers Ammonia, Ureic & Nitrate.
Each are taken up differently by plants.

Phosphates are hard to break down in soil & can harm plants if the levels get high.
So they get locked into soil & at levels above 3% weaken & break mutualistic mycorrhizal relationships.

Potassium in the high levels we often see in horticultural (rather than agricultural) veg growing can do BIG damage to the soil.
They can prevent chelation of calcium, magnesium, iron, cobalt & zinc, to name a few, adsorption of fulvic acids.

Yes they DO leave persistent salts in the ground, which kill soil humates & fulvates.
Another problem may be perception, whereby amateurs believe more = better.
More than organic levels usually means worse.

You forgot to mention, sodium and sulfates type nitrogen. There is no ammonium nitrate anymore but rain made it become ammonia in the soil. Urea turns to ammonia when it rains also but soil MUST have calcium other wise Urea is wasted it does nothing. I always mix wood ash with Urea to make sure it will work when it gets wet. Wood ash is about 20% to 30% calcium depending on the wood type.

Last spring, March, April & May we had 47 inches of rain. So for this year rain as always we had 4" last night. I read EPA says they consider contamination to wash away 50% every time it rains. 1st rain contamination drops down by 50%. Next rain it drops down to 25%. Next rain it drops to 12½%. Next rain it drops to 6¼%. Next 3% then 1½% then ¾%. EPA says contamination is gone after 10 to 20 rains it depends on the type soil and how much rain each time.

I can't keep Calcium in my soil, tomatoes, squash, melons, cucumbers, bell peppers all get BER = blossom end rot. I have to lime the plants all summer every 2 weeks to keep vegetables from getting BER.

Today I see 200 potato plants coming up.