How much can you really grow? Sustainability.

[connova]

In the context of eating from your garden, how much can one really grow in a basic sized house and its backyard? Assuming one had plants indoors and outdoors, can enough vegetables/fruits be grown to become dramatically less dependent on grocery stores?

 

[Durgan]

"become dramatically less dependent on grocery stores?"

Absolutely. It takes little space to grow plants. How you preserve is a big issue. Climate is a big variable. Our Canada season is very short and care must be exercised as to what to grow. I grow most of my plant food and supplement from bulk food stores. The growing area must be massaged to have good soil. At first it take much effort in learning and doing. Not a job for the unambitious. Few people do it.

 

[connova]

"become dramatically less dependent on grocery stores?"

Absolutely. It takes little space to grow plants. How you preserve is a big issue. Climate is a big variable. Our Canada season is very short and care must be exercised as to what to grow. I grow most of my plant food and supplement from bulk food stores. The growing area must be massaged to have good soil. At first it take much effort in learning and doing. Not a job for the unambitious. Few people do it.

Would you say you save half of your grocery bill from your garden? Grocery bill for how many people?

thanks for the response... currently I just have to get my soil prepared this fall for next year spring.

I want to grow a lot of food starting next spring, is it possible for me as a first time grower to pull that off?

Appreciate the info Durgan

 

[Durgan]

Where is your location? You don't pick up growing stuff in one year. It is learning process, trial and error to a great degree.

 

[connova]

Where is your location? You don't pick up growing stuff in one year. It is learning process, trial and error to a great degree.

I am located near Toronto in southern Ontario. Alright so I shouldn't expect much in the beginning but rather just learning?

Thanks for the response!

 

[Meadowlark]

Climate can be a limiting factor...some things are not suitable for certain climates, although many work arounds are possible.

Next most important is your garden soil. It must be renewed and improved constantly...365/24/7. Crops must be rotated; soils must be reconditioned constantly.

Yes, it is very possible to become independent of grocery stores. More importantly, you and family can enjoy excellent tasting, nutritional food year around...from the same garden spot every year.

Sustainability has been a recurring annual goal of mine for many years and I'd say I'm 90% to 95% completely independent of grocery stores. That last 5% or so is what I'm limited to by climate.

I've posted many threads on here on sustainability especially as related to garden soils. You're welcome to read them to see my approach.


Go for it!!

 

[connova]

Climate can be a limiting factor...some things are not suitable for certain climates, although many work arounds are possible.

Next most important is your garden soil. It must be renewed and improved constantly...365/24/7. Crops must be rotated; soils must be reconditioned constantly.

Yes, it is very possible to become independent of grocery stores. More importantly, you and family can enjoy excellent tasting, nutritional food year around...from the same garden spot every year.

Sustainability has been a recurring annual goal of mine for many years and I'd say I'm 90% to 95% completely independent of grocery stores. That last 5% or so is what I'm limited to by climate.

I've posted many threads on here on sustainability especially as related to garden soils. You're welcome to read them to see my approach.


Go for it!!

Thanks for the response. I really got to buckle up I guess because this is no easy work. You're from East Texas right? My climate is a lot cooler than yours so I probably wouldn't be able to achieve the same amount of sustainability as you? Perhaps there are enough workarounds to make it work for me.

I tried to view your threads on sustainability but I cannot find a dedicated section just to view your authored threads...

 

[Meadowlark]

Yes East Texas. As I mentioned climate can be a limiting factor, but creativity can over come much of the limits of climate.

Here are a few threads you might find interesting:

https://www.gardening-forums.com/th...-results-for-2020-potatoes.18974/#post-189540



https://www.gardening-forums.com/th...r-crop-to-healthy-seed-bed.18229/#post-186003



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/spring-2020.17482/#post-179736



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/cover-crop-suggestions.17176/#post-177829



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/onion-harvest-2019.16515/



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/what-does-your-armageddon-garden-look-like.18311/

 

[Durgan]

Self sustaining in food is an admirable aim. Preservation of food in the non growing season presents a challenge. Not many people do it successfully.

My methods of preserving and storing is pressure canning slurry/juice at room temperature. Dried grains at room temperature. Chickpeas, soy and lentils dried. Potatoes, garlic, onions fresh while they last. I keep much dried grains in covered pails, wheat, flax, corn, almonds,sunflower seeds, and some others mostly from a bulk food store. Tempeh is my main protean source.

I play with dehydrating but find it not worth the effort.

Fresh produce in season but this is a minor amount and is available about four months.

My thrust is growing is essential but preservation is probably a bigger issue.

 

[Edward Sean]

Self sustaining in food is an admirable aim. Preservation of food in the non growing season presents a challenge. Not many people do it successfully.

My methods of preserving and storing is pressure canning slurry/juice at room temperature. Dried grains at room temperature. Chickpeas, soy and lentils dried. Potatoes, garlic, onions fresh while they last. I keep much dried grains in covered pails, wheat, flax, corn, almonds,sunflower seeds, and some others mostly from a bulk food store. Tempeh is my main protean source.

I play with dehydrating but find it not worth the effort.

Fresh produce in season but this is a minor amount and is available about four months.

My thrust is growing is essential but preservation is probably a bigger issue.

Why do you think that dehydrating is not worth doing?

 

[Durgan]

My biggest issue is produce sticking to the dehydrating pan. It takes too much time for a reasonable output. Mind you I only do plant produce. It is probably productive for meat. I have made pemmican but use so little that I no longer produce it.

 

[Country]

Yes East Texas. As I mentioned climate can be a limiting factor, but creativity can over come much of the limits of climate.

Here are a few threads you might find interesting:

https://www.gardening-forums.com/th...-results-for-2020-potatoes.18974/#post-189540



https://www.gardening-forums.com/th...r-crop-to-healthy-seed-bed.18229/#post-186003



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/spring-2020.17482/#post-179736



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/cover-crop-suggestions.17176/#post-177829



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/onion-harvest-2019.16515/



https://www.gardening-forums.com/threads/what-does-your-armageddon-garden-look-like.18311/

Hey Meadowlark, I read through all these links and didn't notice how you were scattering the cover crops. Do you run your mower over it?

Thank you,
James

 

[Meadowlark]

Hey Meadowlark, I read through all these links and didn't notice how you were scattering the cover crops. Do you run your mower over it?

Thank you,
James

James,

Yes. If I'm intent on the cover reseeding I just mow and let the residue lay. If I'm ready to prepare for planting, I will follow up the mowing with disking.

Field Peas are especially well suited to this technique. One double, double row patch provided 4 generations of green manure and soil building this summer , seed, mow, re-grow, mow, re-grow, mow, regrow. That patch is now planted in my onion crop which will be harvested next May and will also produce my 2021 potato crop.

In addition to field peas, I also use alfalfa for summer cover and mow it every two weeks until frost. This summer I made 8 cuttings of alfalfa this way providing incalculable valuable soil building. Just mow it with the lawn mower and let it lay. Right now, I have my winter covers going and will mow and then disc those next March for the spring planting. My winter crops include broc, cabbage, brussels, carrots, turnips, radishes, kale, chard, collards, and beets. These crops flourish without artificial fertilizers or insecticides in space that was previously covered with legumes.

It has always baffled me as to why the use of cover crops, summer and winter, isn't much more wide spread. It is so easy and so extremely productive.

 

[Meadowlark]

Mr. James,

Here are some photos of my garden currently:

The first photo shows my alfalfa cover together with my winter cover crop. This alfalfa has sustained three or four freezes/frosts so far going as low as 24 deg. and still remarkably seems to be alive and growing.

This next photo shows the main winter cover crop I have right now...Elbon rye, clovers, Austrian peas, turnips, various other grains, etc. This will thrive until next spring when I mow it and then disc it in preparation for spring/summer crops.

Lots of broc, cabbage, kale, etc. producing also. I like to stager plant my broc, cabbage, others to provide a continuous harvest all winter.

 

[Country]

James,

Yes. If I'm intent on the cover reseeding I just mow and let the residue lay. If I'm ready to prepare for planting, I will follow up the mowing with disking.

Field Peas are especially well suited to this technique. One double, double row patch provided 4 generations of green manure and soil building this summer , seed, mow, re-grow, mow, re-grow, mow, regrow. That patch is now planted in my onion crop which will be harvested next May and will also produce my 2021 potato crop.

In addition to field peas, I also use alfalfa for summer cover and mow it every two weeks until frost. This summer I made 8 cuttings of alfalfa this way providing incalculable valuable soil building. Just mow it with the lawn mower and let it lay. Right now, I have my winter covers going and will mow and then disc those next March for the spring planting. My winter crops include broc, cabbage, brussels, carrots, turnips, radishes, kale, chard, collards, and beets. These crops flourish without artificial fertilizers or insecticides in space that was previously covered with legumes.

It has always baffled me as to why the use of cover crops, summer and winter, isn't much more wide spread. It is so easy and so extremely productive.

Thank you for responding!

I agree, and I think you're doing it right too. I'm in central Iowa and we're obviously on a shorter growing cycle, although it's still warm enough for them to grow something. 52 deg today! But, I've noticed a few farmed fields here have what appears to be winter wheat now.

I also wondered if you are sacrificing a growing season on those areas to prep your soil?

I hadn't put a garden in for the past 5 years and reduced it by about 1/3 this year. (Roughly 20'x20') Plans next year are to expand to roughly 30'x60'. I think skipping a season, assuming this what you're doing to repair and build your soil, could be a good practice for me.

I just got permission to pick up horse stable cleanings last week, but after going through these forums I see there is some concern with some chemical used on alfalfa that would be detrimental for vegetables. In the past I've used my chicken coop cleanings to till in after the season is over. It seems to work well as I think the nitrogen level is high enough the wood chips don't tie up too much nitrogen during decomposition, (Guessing?).

While I have you here, what storage area do you have to store your potato's and onions? I'm getting to the age now that I'm beginning to think about what I can do to supplement intake after retirement. We hollowed out the area below our front stoop when we built the house and I've been monitoring the temp for a few weeks now and it has remained around the 57-60 deg. Still have the cold winter to watch it, but insulation is still an option if it drops too far. I need to research the optimal storage temps and humidity so I know where I need to be.

Thanks for your time and information!
James