Has anyone ever planted a "natural" garden? How did it work for you?

[redback]

I'd like to see this once great thread get back on the subject of "Natural" garden and of @GreenhouseGoblin continued story and responses to that story.

@Greenhouse Goblin is doing it in his own time and meanwhile the topic is still alive.
The freezing cold of snowbound winters and the scorching heat of drought stricken arid areas are relevant to the topic. 'Natural' involves these extremes and also what we do to get relief from gardening routine.
You might have noticed Piet Oudolf plants his perennials and then leaves them to die and winter over claiming that their forms are interesting even when finished.
I must admit I got a shock at the thought of calling frozen 'natural' and we were telling personal tales. Nonetheless we were keeping the thoughts ticking over.

 

[GreenhouseGoblin]

* Today's post is not quite as long because of the subject I chose. Also, I didn't finish typing it last night. And I also wanted to make sure I had time to reply to all of your messages. Hope you enjoy it! *

Let's Talk Manure and Compost!

I've read a lot of different posts on this site about manure and compost, and I thought you might be interested in reading about my experiences.

I've been putting compost and manure i on my garden almost since I started gardening. Manure even longer than compost, actually. When I first starting putting manure on my garden, I didn't have enough of my own animals to supply my self. I know a local farmer who raises organic, pasture fed beef for profit. I knew him from previous engagements, and that he had extra manure that he gave to local gardeners and sold to local farmers. So, when I wanted to start putting manure on the garden, all I did was stop by and ask him to load up my trailer with it.

I did that for several years until I expanded my own herds and had enough.

Why I Started Putting Manure on my Garden

I started putting manure on my garden after the first year. I was disappointed with the amount of earth worms and other biological activity. I had read about different fertilizers and additives you could put in the soil, but even then I was somewhat on the page if doing things naturally, and I thought, "Those are all synthetic products that don't really fix the problems. Rather, they just cover them up and make things look good in paper."

At that point I decided to contact the farmer I knew. He said, "Sure, bring your trailer down I'll load you up."
He gave me one load that fall and then another load of aged manure in the spring. I tilled both applications in when I applied them.

I didn't notice a lot of change the first two years, but by the third I could really tell I was doing something right. The soil was darker, smelled more "earthy", and most of all there were more worms and biological creatures. I also noticed I was "soil building". I had read about this before, but now I was actually witnessing the "building" first hand!

I was also noticing an increase in my yields. I went from about two pounds average per potato hill, to about four pounds. All in just two years. Keep in mind while you are reading this that the plot I use for a garden had been part of the field before I bought the property. After that the rest is sort of history.

About seven or eight years ago I decided I wanted to be more independent with my meat and eggs. I expanded my herd of goats and chicken flocks. Since then I have always used my own manure. I can't really say I've noticed any significant differences with my manure vs. the farmer's.

Compost

I was told years ago by an elderly garden that I needed a compost "heap". I sort of knew what they were from reading about them in old garden literature, but I had never really studied them. I started looking at different ways to make a compost "heap" and I decided that none of them would work very well for me and my current situation. I started looking for alternatives, and I found many. But the ones I was most interested in were the ones that were in troughs, bins, old trash barrels, or even the composting containers sold in stores.

I decided I would try the kind that is in the old trash barrel. I already had a couple of them left over from the previous owner of the property, so I would be making it for free. Basically all I had to do to turn the barrel in to a composter, was drill holes all around it and in the lid.

I put a couple inches of garden dirt in the bottom of the composter. This was my own idea, I thought it might help to boost the decomposition process. I don't think it did. It took about a year for me to feel there was enough compost to take some out.

My main uses if composite are for fertilizer. I spread it around my fruit trees, down the center of my rows, and around my growing plants.

 

[GreenhouseGoblin]

I'm kind of curious what you do to attract pollinators and especially butterflys which I find totally fascinating.

I have a butterfly garden with native plants. I can get you a list of them if you want. For mason and leaf cutter bees, I have some pollinator houses. Some of them I bought at Menards and other home stores, and some of them I built. My late grandpa, when he was still in good health, used to build pollinator houses.

If you like bi color sweet corn, you need to try serendipity. I always grow at least 5 or 6 rows of it . It's like eating honey select but mixed with a white variety.

I have tried Serendipity, and I love it. My problem is a supplier for it. Sometimes they have it, other years not.

Have you observed that plants grown in soil that was cover cropped have a significantly greater tolerance for lower temps than otherwise? Kind of a take-off on your #6.

No, I haven't. But I say appeared because I can plant the corn in one spot, rotate it back around in two years, and the emergence times are completely different. Even if the springs have been nearly the same weather. I probably haven't been doing it long enough to really tell.

I'd like to see this once great thread get back on the subject of "Natural" garden and of @GreenhouseGoblin continued story and responses to that story.

@Greenhouse Goblin is doing it in his own time and meanwhile the topic is still alive.

Yes, I'll continue to post as long as there is more to post. I was just busy last night, so I missed my usual posting time.
But, in all honesty, are you guys really enjoying my stories that much?

 

[Meadowlark]

But, in all honesty, are you guys really enjoying my stories that much?

I am. Gardening is what this forum is all about. I wish there were more like you posting.

 

[redback]

What you are now describing is the move from chemical monoculture to organic monoculture.
If you read the first post in this topic 'natural' is defined as
1. plants were not planted in rows
2. looks like a huge weed/overgrown forest.
I applaud the move to organic and the removal of all 'inputs' of chemicals, but the new wave of biological farmers is doing much more to encourage crop diversity and minimal disruption to the soil and biosphere.

 

[GreenhouseGoblin]

What you are now describing is the move from chemical monoculture to organic monoculture.
If you read the first post in this topic 'natural' is defined as
1. plants were not planted in rows
2. looks like a huge weed/overgrown forest.
I applaud the move to organic and the removal of all 'inputs' of chemicals, but the new wave of biological farmers is doing much more to encourage crop diversity and minimal disruption to the soil and biosphere.

I think I'm seeing some confusion here. When I talk about "rows" I really mean more like walking paths. I'm not big on taking pictures, but this summer I try to remember to take some. I don't even put my tomatoes in cages or tie them up. I just let them sprawl out. My sweet potatoes are very similar. I plant them in mounds, but I never go back to hoe them or weed them.
I'll address this more in depth in my next long post.

 

[redback]

There is also the difficulty with monocultures. The soil scientists have carried out a long-term experiment called Jena that proves a polyculture of 8 to 16 different plants from at least 4 different plant families will utilize the soil's resources much better than a monoculture will.
In South Australia's Mt. Gambier area, the soil possessed a plentiful supply of phosphate, but the monoculture of rye grass could only utilize 2% of it. When they planted a polyculture of many different crops, including the turnips and radishes that you cite, they found greatly increased soil microbial activity and far greater utilization of the phosphate. There is the classic photograph down the fence line of the polyculture thriving on one side and the monoculture barely surviving on the other. The polyculture was much better at surviving both drought and flood as well as being more immune to pests.

 

[Heirloom farmer1969]

I have a butterfly garden with native plants. I can get you a list of them if you want. For mason and leaf cutter bees, I have some pollinator houses. Some of them I bought at Menards and other home stores, and some of them I built. My late grandpa, when he was still in good health, used to build pollinator houses.

I have tried Serendipity, and I love it. My problem is a supplier for it. Sometimes they have it, other years not.

No, I haven't. But I say appeared because I can plant the corn in one spot, rotate it back around in two years, and the emergence times are completely different. Even if the springs have been nearly the same weather. I probably haven't been doing it long enough to really tell.



Yes, I'll continue to post as long as there is more to post. I was just busy last night, so I missed my usual posting time.
But, in all honesty, are you guys really enjoying my stories that much?

Merit seeds always has it and honey select in stock at a very good price .

 

[redback]

This topic is the reason I came to the forum so I will keep it alive. With respect to JR's native garden I am most interested in healthy food and not so much in the native species.

Esther Knapicius talks of 're-seeders' and mulch. This is poignant because self-sown plants are a gift that gives you free continuity of your selected plants and that gives you unexpected, random infill varieties that are the heart of the natural garden. It prohibits annual tilling once you have started planting a plot. That semi-permanent nature of the project means that vegetables are going to be small scale infill.

Alp suggests that permanent crops of marigolds, lavender, rosemary and echinacea give you edible perennials. This reinforces the idea of the natural edible garden being at least semi-permanent.

@Urban wild comes closest to my aims. "Hoe, sow and grow, don't mow." All monocultures, including lawns, are a gross oversimplification of nature. The aim of food production is health and taste - not money. To survive without chemical inputs our gardens need the help of wildlife - predators and pollinators. If we are to survive this hard task of survival, we need mental satisfaction. We need to enjoy our surroundings and to that end birds, butterflies and permanent shade trees come into the equation. Lastly, we need many "paths to success" and no fear of failure.

That is what I've learnt so far. I suspect my garden will go through a prolonged adaptation stage. It starts out strongly organic (I've never been non-organic) but with rows of vegetables, some herbicide usage and a lack of flowers. I have started on the path of the new naturalism but am unsure of the future.

 

[GreenhouseGoblin]

Merit seeds always has it and honey select in stock at a very good price .

Thanks for letting me know. I'll check them out...and probably order some.

 

[GreenhouseGoblin]

How I Plant my Natural Garden

There have been a few posts on here talking about how to plant my natural gardens. I decided I would take a few minutes, to share with you today, how I plant my natural garden.

I start by mowing my cover crop off, then I plow it under, and finally I finish soil preparation with a couple passes wort the tiller. I usually stagger my plantings that way I don't have everything ready all at once. I start with the white potatoes and onions. After those emerge about 7-11 days later, I plant the corn, squash, tomatoes, and sweet potatoes.

There are certain crops I mix into the same area in the garden. An example of this is my squash and corn. I plant the pumpkins down the center of the corn "rows". There are two reasons for my planting the pumpkins in was the the corn.
1. Deer won't cross into a corn patch surrounded by pumpkins. They don't like how the leaves and vines feel on their legs.
2. The pumpkins are weed controllers. Because of the large weeds and sprawling vines they choke out a lot of the weeds.

You're probably wondering if there are crops I plant by themselves, the answer is "Yes, there are". Sweet potatoes and tomatoes are the crops I mostly do it with. I plant the sweet potatoes and tomatoes in mostly the same fashion.
I plant both of them in partial
"rows"/mounds that I never go back to hoe or weed. I do make sort of stomped down paths through the weeds in the tomatoes, but the sweet potatoes I don't do anything with. I not in the sweet potato patch from the time of planting to when I dig them.

I'll continue to go deeper into this as I gather my thoughts.

 

[redback]

Thanks for your planting info. I do think we will be staging our planting, with the cold tolerant first and the heat tolerant last.
Tilling three times after mowing is not good for the soil structure or soil life. Although Meadowlark will disagree with me, I suggest that after mowing it's best to immediately plant the seedlings (grown in your hothouse) and mulch between rows. Instead of trying to incorporate the crop into the ground just pile it into a heap and let it compost for next year. Just a suggestion from a non-mechanized gardener.
I've never had luck with corn and pumpkin but I'm not in Ohio. Do you get much infestation or insect damage with the ground sprawling tomato and sweet potato crops?

 

[Meadowlark]

There are certain crops I mix into the same area in the garden. An example of this is my squash and corn. I plant the pumpkins down the center of the corn "rows". There are two reasons for my planting the pumpkins in was the the corn.
1. Deer won't cross into a corn patch surrounded by pumpkins. They don't like how the leaves and vines feel on their legs.
2. The pumpkins are weed controllers. Because of the large weeds and sprawling vines they choke out a lot of the weeds.

I do the same only with watermelons instead of pumpkins. It is just too hot and humid here for pumpkins but perfect for watermelons.

 

[Meadowlark]

Tilling three times after mowing is not good for the soil structure or soil life. Although Meadowlark will disagree with me, I suggest that after mowing it's best to immediately plant the seedlings (grown in your hothouse) and mulch between rows.

I don't actually till after mowing cover crops, rather I use a shallow running disc to chop the organic matter into the soil. My disc runs generally about 4-6 inches deep. I could be wrong, but I just don't see that as hurting soil structure or life.

My old tiller broke down a few years back and I've never repaired or replaced it. I just don't need it. Now, if on the other hand, I were faced with "new" ground, tilling might be an alternative I would choose.

 

[redback]

I don't actually till after mowing cover crops, rather I use a shallow running disc to chop the organic matter into the soil.

They would be less harmful by far. Sorry about the word tilling. It's called rotary hoeing here and it chops the top 10" of soil comprehensively.