Does no dig gardening really work?

[Meadowlark]

It means that after five years you will be able to plunge a metal bar into the ground with one hand to a depth of ... Oh no, wait a minute, that's something else.

A wonderful sense of humor on display here @Oliver Buckle

 

[gary350]

@gary350 a painful review of this entire thread provides the definition I used in my experiment which showed 3 to 1 reduction in production using No Dig.

"A 1 inch layer of compost is applied to the soild every December - nothing more added." "Honestly, all you need to do is put an inch of compost onto your bed each year. " No fertilizer, no weeding"

@Susan BBPM

I challenge anyone to do the same experiment I did following the above definition of No Dig and post honest results.

I have 2 cousins that both plant 2000 acres of field corn every spring. 50 years ago they used a turning plow to turn the soil then a week later disc the soil then plant seeds.

Now days they use a chisel plow and no disc then they plant seeds. Chisel plow is very close to being no till, lots of money is saved not discing the soil. Profit lost with no till is about = to money saved in gasoline and labor not discing the soil.

Farm equipment these days needs to be about to plant 250 acres every day to stay on schedule with mother nature it takes 8 days to plant 2000 acres of corn. They cultivate and fertilize when corn is 12" tall then cultivate again when corn is 36" tall. Every time they save 8 days not diving across 2000 acre fields that saves, gas, labor, repair costs. That is how they justify money lost doing no till.

Farmers do not have the luxury of putting compost on 2000 acres of land like we gardeners do our garden. The corn harvester chops, corn stalks, corn leaves, corn cobs into compose then throws it out the back of the machine onto the field. When I harvest 300 corn plants I drive over them with my lawn mower to chop and blow it onto the garden soil where corn plants were grown then I till in the chopped corn plants.

 

[ThegardenGuy]

yes i strong believe in organic gardening alot more with worlds problems. Also being more eco-friendly with products that are geared to organic gardening.

 

[pepper2.0]

Does "No Dig" work?

My results indicate at least a 3 to 1 reduction in production from "No Dig". That does not work in my book...but perhaps it does in yours.

Type	Planting Date	Production No Dig	Production Organic	Production HK Container
​	​	​	​	​
Sarpo Mira potatoes	Aug. 29	38​	73​	98​
Lieutenant broccoli	Aug. 28	22​	97​	56​
Swiss Chard	Aug. 29	1.9​	34​	64​
Prizm kale	Aug. 29	3​	8​	12​
Early Wakefield Cabbage	Sept. 1	6​	87​	28​
Sprouting Broc	Sept. 1	​	8.1​	8.3​
radish white	7-Sep​	35​	40​	40​
Radish red	Sept. 4	12​	23​	40​
Lettuce	Sept. 4	2.5​	5​	6​
Sweet Peas	Sept. 4	1.8​	4​	3.9​
Red Cabbage	Sept. 7	2​	5.5​	7.5​
total ounces	​	124.2​	384.6​	363.7​

I've no experience in no dig to add to this thread, but this chart makes the most sense to me of what I would expect the outcome to be.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

@gary350 a painful review of this entire thread provides the definition I used in my experiment which showed 3 to 1 reduction in production using No Dig.

"A 1 inch layer of compost is applied to the soild every December - nothing more added." "Honestly, all you need to do is put an inch of compost onto your bed each year. " No fertilizer, no weeding"

@Susan BBPM

I challenge anyone to do the same experiment I did following the above definition of No Dig and post honest results.

It depends a bit on what you start out with doesn't it? Inherit a piece of ground where, even if has been overgrown for a few years, it has been cultivated and there is a base of good earth you might get away with it. Move into a new build with a garden of clay stripped of topsoil and admixed with builder's rubble, and you won't. there are, of course, many possibilities in between, but I have to agree, in general the more you put in to it the more you get out of it.

 

[cpp gardener]

I think a thicker layer of compost or well chopped organic matter might work better than 1”. If you think about it, that isn’t very much stuff on top. Do you end up with more than 1” of green manure when you cut it down Meadowlark?

 

[Oliver Buckle]

I think a thicker layer of compost or well chopped organic matter might work better than 1”. If you think about it, that isn’t very much stuff on top. Do you end up with more than 1” of green manure when you cut it down Meadowlark?

This is true, I often put a good bit more than that on, or dig it in.

 

[Meadowlark]

I think a thicker layer of compost or well chopped organic matter might work better than 1”. If you think about it, that isn’t very much stuff on top. Do you end up with more than 1” of green manure when you cut it down Meadowlark?

Oh absolutely...however, I was just playing by the rules defined by the "No Dig" advocates. They said ""A 1 inch layer of compost is applied to the soild every December - nothing more added."

That is what I was testing out in one row in comparison to my methods of multiple chop and drop, several inches of composted cow manure tilled into the soil along with green manure legume, and careful cultivation throughout the growing cycle in the joining row.

Identical plants in each row and the result was a 3 to 1 reduction in the No Dig production vs my methods. The result was not surprising.

What was surprising and continues to be surprising is that the "No Dig" advocates claim no loss of production with their method...and that is patently bogus.

 

[gary350]

MY definition of organic garden is no, toxic cancer causing weed killers, no toxic poison bug killers. I do NOT buy organic seeds or organic plants it is 100,000. times more important to grow seeds and plants in none toxic none contaminated poison soil. I have 14 bird houses and very few bugs. I do not plant squash or cucumbers they are bug magnets they attract 1000s of evil bugs to my garden. I burn lots of tree limbs and wood to use for BER and fertilizer for plants. I buy grocery store potatoes to sprout myself to plant 6 weeks before last frost = April 20 for us. I buy onion sets and plants to plant March 1st I don't care if they are not organic because they will be grown organic. Some people are too radical about organic I don't care if seeds claim to be organic or not. I buy the $1 seed packs not the $5 organic seeds. I am glad that I took chemistry in school, fertilizer is NPK no matter where you can find it. I refuse to pay $20 for a tiny 5 lb. bag of organic fertilizer I pay $20 for 50 lbs. of fertilizer from local farm supply store. I recycle my own dead plant back into the garden soil. I use a garden tiller to till before I plant then till between rows if they need it to kill weeds. I plant a 30ft row of Zinnia flowers it attracts 100s of honey bees, 100s of butterflies, lots of finch birds. I have 6 blue bird houses they select their house last week of Feb. and lay eggs first week of March. My garden has almost no bugs, I start seeing stink bugs mid July they attack tomatoes. Stink bugs are the only bugs I ever see. I haul lots of free compose from the recycle center to my garden.

 

[Meadowlark]

Pretty much completely off topic @gary350 . The discussion is about No Dig and whether it works or not. Please stay on topic.

... I do NOT buy organic seeds or organic plants it is 100,000. times more important to grow seeds and plants in none toxic none contaminated poison soil.

Completely off topic. No one is talking about organic seeds or organic plants in this thread. Please stay on topic.

... I have 14 bird houses and very few bugs. I do not plant squash or cucumbers they are bug magnets they attract 1000s of evil bugs to my garden. I burn lots of tree limbs and wood to use for BER and fertilizer for plants. I buy grocery store potatoes to sprout myself to plant 6 weeks before last frost = April 20 for us. I buy onion sets and plants to plant March 1st I don't care if they are not organic because they will be grown organic.

Completely off topic. Bird houses, bugs, etc. are all irrelevant to the topic.

... Some people are too radical about organic I don't care if seeds claim to be organic or not. I buy the $1 seed packs not the $5 organic seeds. I am glad that I took chemistry in school, fertilizer is NPK no matter where you can find it. I refuse to pay $20 for a tiny 5 lb. bag of organic fertilizer I pay $20 for 50 lbs. of fertilizer from local farm supply store. I recycle my own dead plant back into the garden soil.

100% off topic. Too Radical, seed packets, price of fertilizer, etc. are all irrelevant to the topic

...I use a garden tiller to till before I plant then till between rows if they need it to kill weeds. ...

Ok, so you do not use No Dig, but the thread question was does No dig work...not what you use.

I plant a 30ft row of Zinnia flowers it attracts 100s of honey bees, 100s of butterflies, lots of finch birds. I have 6 blue bird houses they select their house last week of Feb. and lay eggs first week of March. My garden has almost no bugs, I start seeing stink bugs mid July they attack tomatoes. Stink bugs are the only bugs I ever see. I haul lots of free compose from the recycle center to my garden.

100% off topic. Flowers, bird houses (again), etc. are all irrelevant to the topic

Again, the topic as stated by the OP is "Does No Dig gardening really work?"

You are welcome to start other threads on other topics you have posted in this response, but please in this thread stick to the question asked by the Op.

 

[oneeye]

It takes a lot of time to advance into a no-till method. I would say about 5 years minimum unless you are blessed with sandy loam.