Broad Micronutrients

[Meadowlark]

Amazing to read the total lack of the use of cover crops here to "supply broad spectrum micronutrients"

Virtually free, unsurpassed quality, anyone can do it. Maybe its just too simple.

 

[Chuck]

Well, I have to disagree. It is a fact that cover crops are one of the best if not the best thing for building fertile soils. But, not many home gardeners have a tractor with a turning plow and disc harrow. On this forum, I know of two. Even though a lot of folks here have roto-tillers they are about useless when working with cover crops as a tiller does not cut the plant into pieces, it rolls up in the tines of the tiller and one would spend the vast majority of his time trying to clear the tines. Myself, I had a garden of about 1/4 acre. I had no tractor and no tiller. I had a rake and a shovel. I gave up my very successful 1/4 acre garden two seasons ago because I am no longer able to manually take care of a large garden. I will admit that I have never tried to turn over even a small garden with a shovel but I have tried to till soil with a ground cover and it is impossible for anyone except Hercules. I have tried both rear tine and front tine tillers. Using a shovel, IMO, would be a futile effort at best, stopping many gardeners even before they got started. So, in effect @Meadowlark, please try to use nothing but what 95+% of what a home gardener have to use and leave your tractor in the barn.

 

[Meadowlark]

... So, in effect @Meadowlark, please try to use nothing but what 95+% of what a home gardener have to use and leave your tractor in the barn.

The above is hilarious...LOL, absolutely hilarious...and I have to disagree.

So, would you say 95% of home gardeners have or have access to a lawn mower?? I would say "so" yes.

I use a lawn mower to shred my cover crops...in fact, I used one just today to shred an alfalfa cover crop for the second cutting this season. Finely chopped alfalfa just may be the world's most efficient soil builder and an incredible mulch...I'm tying to prove that in a related experiment...but that is a tangent to this discussion. A lawn mower is perfect for this application.

If one isn't able to operate a lawn mower, there are plenty of youngsters who are willing to do so very cheap. Believe me, the benefits from cover cropping are orders of magnitude greater than the cost of paying a kid to mow on rare occasions.

I don't use a "turning plow" and only use the disc harrow to accelerate the soil building process when appropriate...after using the lawn mower. No, absolutely no, failure to use cover crops is not due to limited equipment....lack of creativity or understanding of the value of cover crops would be more likely.

Now, when I get to the point where I can only garden in small raised bed{s} without equipment, I will absolutely use cover crops. If I garden, I will use cover crops period! Those days are probably not far away as I'm currently 75 years young. I use a tractor to cultivate and make rows mainly because my garden is about 5,000 sq. ft...and it produces well over 90% of most vegetables we use and many that extended family and friends use. It just isn't required for cover cropping. Not at all.

Elbon rye can be hand seeded with great success. Same for many clovers, vetch, small grains I use in winter...easily hand seeded. My alfalfa likewise was hand seeded. Equipment?? No, not using cover crops is a failure to be creative in soil building...not equipment limitations. Those can easily be overcome.

 

[Meadowlark]

There are 7 essential plant nutrient elements defined as micronutrients [boron (B), zinc (Zn), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), molybdenum (Mo), chlorine (Cl)].

Soil test results after one season of alfalfa cover crop:

Boron +183%
Zinc +136%
Copper +250%
Manganese unchanged
iron unchanged

Nitrogen (not micro) +278%
Phosphorus (not micro) +157%

Did not test for chlorine or molybdenum.

So I ask, should cover crops be a part of the discussion to supply broad spectrum micronutrients?

 

[Chuck]

A lawn mower? I guess that takes care of the above ground foliage but what about the roots? How will a lawn mower do anything about being able to plant vegetables? Cut off the tops but you still have roots which are still alive and act as a detriment for nitrogen uptake. And as the growing season progresses one still has to be able to plant either seeds or transplant. I have been there and done that. For many years. I do agree that ground covers are probably the best means of soil building but I also believe that ground covers are NOT the best way to enable home gardeners to have a successful garden. What you espouse is a great idea but IMO not achievable. You are not a gardener. You are a farmer. Between you and the average home gardener there is a world of difference.

 

[Meadowlark]

.... You are not a gardener. You are a farmer. Between you and the average home gardener there is a world of difference.

Laughable, simply laughable. I sell nothing.

You may be right about the average home gardener...they are woefully misinformed on the merits of soil building and not surprisingly, ignorant of the methods to make it easy.

How do most prepare a seed bed? Do the same thing after a cover crop has been shredded by the lawn mower. No more, no less.


It is ridiculous to say building soil through cover cropping with no more extra than a lawn mower is unachievable. Utterly ridiculous!!! Completely unimaginative!

 

[DirtMechanic]

Ok. I just want you two to send me your tomatoes and I will judge the product of this context. Heck I will even share them for purposes of concensus.

 

[Meadowlark]

Send me your mailing address....and while I'm at it, I'll send along some other "samples".

 

[DirtMechanic]

Send me your mailing address....and while I'm at it, I'll send along some other "samples".

Done. And Thank You!

 

[Meadowlark]

.... What you espouse is a great idea but IMO not achievable. ...

Not achievable...a picture or two is worth a thousand words.

This shows the "before" of the before and after alfalfa cover crop mowing...with a lawn mower. Note on the left side is last years alfalfa and on the right this years.

Bring on the lawn mower...set it high if you want continued growth which I do or set it lowest to pulverize the soil and ready it for seed bed prep.

In about 5 minutes or less an area 6 ft by 90 ft can be easily mowed....and in about two weeks, if you want more priceless mulch, can be mowed again...and so on.

Unachievable? Hardly.

Just for fun I'm going to do some planting pots "before and after" to show how easily this can be done in a container garden....building soil arguably the most efficient way I know of without need of any special equipment. Just a few seeds.

 

[Chuck]

What I want to see is you till under the growth you have mowed and prepare a seedbed without a tractor or plow or disc harrow. I will be more than happy to readjust my thinking when I see this.

 

[Meadowlark]

Your thinking is flat wrong...respectively...and you keep moving the goal posts to fit your negative narrative.

How do you prepare a seed bed? Can be the very same here. That fresh mowed area, if it was shredded short with the mower can then be prepared as any seed bed....actually easier then most. I would demonstrate but I'm not at all willing to sacrifice my alfalfa just to demonstrate something which you will then AGAIN move the goal posts on. Next spring, I'll make a seed bed there, run the soil tests again...and give the skeptics another shot at moving the goal posts, LOL. In the meantime, let's see your soil test results.

I haven't seen any arguments against the soil test results I presented...yet...only complaints that its '"too hard" which it isn't at all. 95% of home gardeners can do this easily with no special equipment needed...only an open mind.

 

[Chuck]

I did not move the goal post. I stated above that the roots systems of your cover crops are next to impossible to turn over with what a home gardener has. He might have a tiller but most do not and even a tiller will bind up after a few seconds. That leaves a shovel. If I had a tractor like you do I would do the exact same thing as you do and neither do the folks on this forum have a tractor. I have also stated in numerous posts that ground covers are great and probably the absolute best way to build soil. So, I want pictures of you, "accelerating" the soil without your disc harrow. I want to see how you manage to get through all those masses of roots. You can use any roto-tiller you like, even one of those big Troy Built Horses that they don't make anymore. If you can do it then I will be the first to admit I was wrong and I will do the same thing as I dislike buying soil amendments that aren't as good as successive ground covers.

 

[Meadowlark]

Again...You are flat wrong...and goaded me into destroying part of a thriving cover crop.

I had my wife time it...less than 30 seconds of tilling with my old worn out small tiller and presto a seed bed worthy of any.

I can immediately plant this....and in fact I will immediately reseed my alfalfa cover just tilled.

The key to this is the lawn mower...set to the lowest you can and then till. I could have easily done the entire patch without stopping but I refuse to destroy a perfectly great cover just to demonstrate you are wrong...again.

 

[Meadowlark]

30 more seconds to rake and smooth and 30 more to reseed.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.