Are we having Global Warming, or not ??

[gardenfairy]

I still haven't seen a link that supports what your saying...

 

[Chuck]

It isn't up to us "deniers" to prove a negative. It is up to the man made climate change global warming activists to prove a possitive and so far there is no scientific data to prove it. If there is I would like to see it. If there were proof positive scientific data we wouldn't be having this discussion

 

[gardenfairy]

*Shakes head and Sighs* I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Such a pity.

 

[headfullofbees]

I still haven't seen a link that supports what your saying...

It's not possible to prove the negative, however, if you propose amendments to human behaviour because of your position, it is incumbent upon YOU to prove, beyond doubt, your case, and I don't mean some gigo computer game.

 

[Livvy]

Empirical evidence presented by likeminded scholars is not science.

And this right here is why people continue to believe there's no global climate change. Also, it's called climate change, not global warming. The media may call it the latter, but no one who actually works in the field does.

And yes, it is up to you 'deniers' to prove that your point of view is correct. You can't just say something isn't true, and say 'Ha you've got to prove that you're right'. If you make a claim, then you should be able, and willing, to back that up. Do you believe Gravity exists? Good. Then you can point us to the evidence which says it exists? Evolution? Again, you can point us to the evidence that it exists.

Global climate change? Oh no, you'd never point to that evidence. That isn't it up to you, is it? After all, you don't have to prove your claims.

By the way did you hear? We're in a world which is hollow, and there's mole men beneath the crust. Why don't you prove me wrong? After all, you have to prove that I'm not making this up, don't you?

It's not possible to prove the negative, however, if you propose amendments to human behaviour because of your position, it is incumbent upon YOU to prove, beyond doubt, your case, and I don't mean some gigo computer game.

Except that's not true at all. If YOU make a claim, then yes it is up to you to prove that something is happening, or that it isn't. For example, if YOU make a claim that global climate change isn't a thing, YOU must present your case, and back it up, including refuting the evidence which says otherwise.

Now, would you perhaps like to argue your case, including facts and scientific sources, or should will you just fall back on the 'You can't prove me wrong' defense?

 

[Chuck]

And this right here is why people continue to believe there's no global climate change. Also, it's called climate change, not global warming. The media may call it the latter, but no one who actually works in the field does.

And yes, it is up to you 'deniers' to prove that your point of view is correct. You can't just say something isn't true, and say 'Ha you've got to prove that you're right'. If you make a claim, then you should be able, and willing, to back that up. Do you believe Gravity exists? Good. Then you can point us to the evidence which says it exists? Evolution? Again, you can point us to the evidence that it exists.

Global climate change? Oh no, you'd never point to that evidence. That isn't it up to you, is it? After all, you don't have to prove your claims.

By the way did you hear? We're in a world which is hollow, and there's mole men beneath the crust. Why don't you prove me wrong? After all, you have to prove that I'm not making this up, don't you?


Except that's not true at all. If YOU make a claim, then yes it is up to you to prove that something is happening, or that it isn't. For example, if YOU make a claim that global climate change isn't a thing, YOU must present your case, and back it up, including refuting the evidence which says otherwise.

Now, would you perhaps like to argue your case, including facts and scientific sources, or should will you just fall back on the 'You can't prove me wrong' defense?

That's what we are asking for. Scientific proof that it is happening. Just having a bunch of pointy headed intellectuals say it is isn't fact. And you CAN prove me wrong. Show me data. The earth is approximatey 3 billion years or so they say, and during that time the climate has changed God knows how many times and that is a provable fact. Do you have any idea of when weather data was first started being comprised, collated and studied on just a national level, much less globally? I will tell you, less than 150 years ago. We don't know what was "normal" 200 years ago much less 500 or for that matter what it will be next week.. We don't know about how many tornadoes there were. We don't have a clue about the ice caps except for ice cores which show for a fact that Co2 levels were higher than they are now hundreds and even thousands of years ago. It is a proven fact. Google ice cores and see for yourself. Google Greenland archeology and discover that Greenland 15000 years ago was an agricultural area not the frozen place it is now. Show me one place where the sea levels are rising. It's proven where they were 200 years ago. Look at the old Admirality charts from the British navy if you don't want to believe me. By using just a little common sense it would seem that the climate is perpetually changing. Now I want some proof and not just a bunch of oral flatulence from a bunch of acedemics who claim to be scientists that in fact it is getting warmer, that these latest spring and summer thunder storms, the floods, the heat, the cold are something new. That man is at fault for it all. That my light bulb and SUV are going to destroy the world. Just a little proof is all

 

[Gus]

That's what we are asking for. Scientific proof that it is happening. Just having a bunch of pointy headed intellectuals say it is isn't fact. And you CAN prove me wrong. Show me data. The earth is approximatey 3 billion years or so they say, and during that time the climate has changed God knows how many times and that is a provable fact. Do you have any idea of when weather data was first started being comprised, collated and studied on just a national level, much less globally? I will tell you, less than 150 years ago. We don't know what was "normal" 200 years ago much less 500 or for that matter what it will be next week.. We don't know about how many tornadoes there were. We don't have a clue about the ice caps except for ice cores which show for a fact that Co2 levels were higher than they are now hundreds and even thousands of years ago. It is a proven fact. Google ice cores and see for yourself. Google Greenland archeology and discover that Greenland 15000 years ago was an agricultural area not the frozen place it is now. Show me one place where the sea levels are rising. It's proven where they were 200 years ago. Look at the old Admirality charts from the British navy if you don't want to believe me. By using just a little common sense it would seem that the climate is perpetually changing. Now I want some proof and not just a bunch of oral flatulence from a bunch of acedemics who claim to be scientists that in fact it is getting warmer, that these latest spring and summer thunder storms, the floods, the heat, the cold are something new. That man is at fault for it all. That my light bulb and SUV are going to destroy the world. Just a little proof is all

Those scientists you just called liars I think are a hell of a lot smarter than us both. They have showed you proof, you just prefer to ignore change. This is the fastest the climate has changed in a million years, and yes there is proof of that. If you don't believe that than look at the EPAs website.
America is close to last place in switching over to green energy, we need to change that because whether you. Believe in climate change or not fossil fuels WILL run out, IT IS A FACT! If you live in the Northern hemisphere you remember the polar vortexes right, well guess what it's going to happen again this winter because of climate change. Just please before you call scientists liars actually listen to what they have say!! Oh and by the way yes your SUV is going to have an impact on climate

 

[zigs]

Not saying that climate change isn't happening, just that it's not connected to atmospheric CO2 levels and that it's directly related to solar output.

http://climatephysics.com/80/

The fuel will run out, so regardless of what we think, we must try to save energy as much as possible.

Think I mentioned earlier that this post is brought to you via solar power.

Mod note : It's a touchy subject, let's not get cross about things.

 

[zigs]

This is the fastest the climate has changed in a million years,

No it's not.

It's changed far faster and more extremely over the past million years than you can imagine.

Some of us "guys in a garden web forum" just might have a bit more background than the politicians and scientists that you are believing.

The average temperature over the past million years has been well below freezing, we are lucky to be living in an above average warm period.

 

[Chuck]

Those scientists you just called liars I think are a hell of a lot smarter than us both. They have showed you proof, you just prefer to ignore change. This is the fastest the climate has changed in a million years, and yes there is proof of that. If you don't believe that than look at the EPAs website.
America is close to last place in switching over to green energy, we need to change that because whether you. Believe in climate change or not fossil fuels WILL run out, IT IS A FACT! If you live in the Northern hemisphere you remember the polar vortexes right, well guess what it's going to happen again this winter because of climate change. Just please before you call scientists liars actually listen to what they have say!! Oh and by the way yes your SUV is going to have an impact on climate

Just what proof have they showed? I have never said the climate is not changing. In fact I have tried to make a point that it is in perpetual change. The fastest the change in a million years? We are not positive of what changes there were 500 years ago much less how fast they changed. EPA's website? What is the EPA but a government shill? What was it, just about 2 months ago that the all knowing EPA said a turtle would be extinct if the area wasn't shut down, and come to find out they had to kill 40000 of them to keep the species viable? How about that lizard in west Texas where the EPA said no more drilling only to find out the things are in no danger at all. Like I said a government shill. Polar vortex? All that was was a new name spewed out by the media. What it really was was a very strong Norther which has happened in my lifetime a lot of times and sometimes a whole lot worse than last year. And I do listen to what they say. I hear a bunch of hypotheticals and theorys. Not one shred of fact.
We should conserve our fossil fuels. Absolutely. We will one day run out of them and that should make the man made climate change folks very happy because when they are finally all gone the poor polluted earth can once again return to is origional condition and the climate will continue to do what it has always done, change again. Maybe by that time we will have perfected the matchbook sized nuclear reactor so you can stay warm and cool and still have your food delivered. OOPS can't do that either. It will pollute. As far as green energy? I am 100% in favor of it. As soon as it is reliable 24/7 and economically viable I will be the first in line. In the meantime I prefer to drive my SUV and not worry about some golfcart sized deathtrap running me over. And what BTW powers these battery powered so called cars. It sure ain't solar or wind. And solar and wind sure isn't going to make a battery either

 

[headfullofbees]

Except that's not true at all. If YOU make a claim, then yes it is up to you to prove that something is happening, or that it isn't. For example, if YOU make a claim that global climate change isn't a thing, YOU must present your case, and back it up, including refuting the evidence which says otherwise.

This is utter nonsense.

The name change from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" happened because we have had SEVENTEEN YEARS of no heating, and, in fact, marginal cooling.

 

[Gus]

Just what proof have they showed? I have never said the climate is not changing. In fact I have tried to make a point that it is in perpetual change. The fastest the change in a million years? We are not positive of what changes there were 500 years ago much less how fast they changed. EPA's website? What is the EPA but a government shill? What was it, just about 2 months ago that the all knowing EPA said a turtle would be extinct if the area wasn't shut down, and come to find out they had to kill 40000 of them to keep the species viable? How about that lizard in west Texas where the EPA said no more drilling only to find out the things are in no danger at all. Like I said a government shill. Polar vortex? All that was was a new name spewed out by the media. What it really was was a very strong Norther which has happened in my lifetime a lot of times and sometimes a whole lot worse than last year. And I do listen to what they say. I hear a bunch of hypotheticals and theorys. Not one shred of fact.
We should conserve our fossil fuels. Absolutely. We will one day run out of them and that should make the man made climate change folks very happy because when they are finally all gone the poor polluted earth can once again return to is origional condition and the climate will continue to do what it has always done, change again. Maybe by that time we will have perfected the matchbook sized nuclear reactor so you can stay warm and cool and still have your food delivered. OOPS can't do that either. It will pollute. As far as green energy? I am 100% in favor of it. As soon as it is reliable 24/7 and economically viable I will be the first in line. In the meantime I prefer to drive my SUV and not worry about some golfcart sized deathtrap running me over. And what BTW powers these battery powered so called cars. It sure ain't solar or wind. And solar and wind sure isn't going to make a battery either

I totally understand you when you say the climate is always changing because it is this is just an abnormal change recently.
The EPA is not some conspiracy theory! I'll leave it at that.
By the way you may want to swap out your SUV, not only is it a burden to the planet but the gas prices are going up...

 

[Becky]

Mod note : It's a touchy subject, let's not get cross about things.

Couldn't agree more. Let's keep it civil folks! Discussion is always good, but this has become an argument with neither side actually providing any evidence to back up their points, everyone is just slinging mud at each other. If you feel strongly about this topic then see it as an opportunity to educate others through the provision of evidence. I'd hate to close the topic, but if things get out of hand we may have no choice.

It goes without saying that personal attacks will not be tolerated here, so by all means criticise a point of view but don't make it personal. Everyone is entitled to their opinions after all

 

[limcid]

Man-made climate change is a hoax to facilitate the flow of more money and control to governments. Understanding climate change is very simple, actually, once you erase all of the political rhetoric from politicians, actors, artists, activists, etc.

We live in a solar system. The governing body within this solar system, with respect to temperature, is none other than the Sun. If you research the historical data of the Sun's activity, as it relates to claims of global climate change (irregardless of its proclaimed cause), you will find that the Sun's activity has fluctuated right along with the claims. It only makes sense because, again, the Sun is the source of heat for the surrounding planets.

In 2013, we experienced record low temperatures in many places around the world. Scientists that study the Sun claimed that they were "baffled" by the lack of sunspot activity in 2013. Sunspot activity is an indicator of the relative amounts of energy being generated by the Sun. Lower sunspot activity indicates a cooler Sun, and vice versa. Mankind does not influence the relative amounts of energy being generated by the Sun. No amount of aeresols, exhausts, cow flatulence, or even George Bush will have an effect on the Sun's level of activity.

It is a lie that the "scientists" have come to a consensus that man-made global warming is real. Science is not built upon consensus. It is built upon theories and on-going experiments to constantly challenge and prove or disprove existing theories, and to forge new theories from discovery. Even the findings of the great Albert Einstein are still categorized as THEORY, not fact! Is the evidence of man-made global warming of greater significance than Einstein's theory of relativity? Has the theory of man-made global warming been tested to nearly the same degree as Einstein's theories? Not even close. In fact, anyone daring to challenge, question, or doubt this theory of man-made global warming (climate change, whatever you want to call it) is met with anger and name-calling and being labeled as a "denier". LOL!! This is science? No, it is not. This is politics. You are being duped. Engage in critical thinking along with mature research and you'll find this issue is really very simple to understand. You see governments need crisis to facilitate their goals of greater taxation and limitations upon the masses. You can't find a government in human history that has not behaved in this manner. Wake up.

BTW, the ice in the Antarctic is thicker than it has ever been in the history of mankind's measuring its thickness. Look it up, don't make it up. Yawn.

 

[Chuck]

I totally understand you when you say the climate is always changing because it is this is just an abnormal change recently.
The EPA is not some conspiracy theory! I'll leave it at that.
By the way you may want to swap out your SUV, not only is it a burden to the planet but the gas prices are going up...

The EPA isn't a bunch of conspirators, on that I agree. They are a bunch of leftists following the liberal agenda who have been given way too much power and no way to control them.