An experiment in Hugelkulture in containers

[Chuck]

I cannot figure out why Marck does not or cannot or chooses not to understand what this thread is really about. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MANY POUNDS OF TOMATOES OR PEPPERS ARE PRODUCED BY THE HUGELKULTURE METHOD. What matters are the pounds produced in COMPARISON WITH INGROUND PLANTING. We are trying to find out a physically easier way to keep gardening due to old age. We already know how to grow more vegetables than we know what to do with so it doesn't matter how many pounds are produced by Hugelkulture or inground planting. If I could grow 50% by the Hugelkulture technique of what I normally grow inground and do it without being laid up in bed for a week, then I am all for it.
Sure this is a small experiment. All gardening is an experiment each and every growing season but what works one season usually works for the next. I have been vegetable gardening and learning about vegetable gardening for 65+ years. My parents had a vegetable truck farm with 13 acres under cultivation where we made our living until I went into the military, selling vegetables at a roadside stand, farmers markets and restaurants. I even sold San Marzano tomatoes under contract to Kraft for a couple of years so I am able to say with a small bit of authority this simple fact. Knowledge, whether gained from books or by experience must be tempered with common sense.

 

[Marck]

Chuck, if you want to optimize your container culture, the 'experiment' described on this thread is not the way to do it.

Instead, do a simple experiment in which you set up several identical containers, and then alter only one variable. For example, if you want to optimize fertilizing, have one container planted with compost-enriched soil, another with chicken-manure enriched soil, another with a complete liquid formula (perhaps several different brands or formulae), yet others with granular, time-released formulae.
Of course, you could also have treatments using all the same fertilizer, but at different concentrations or frequency of application.
...and yes, you could also have containers, both with and without pieces of wood at the bottom.

I do agree that you should judge the results based on resource inputs, as well as quality and yield.
Of course, a high-yielding method would not be satisfactory if it was also too expensive, laborious, dangerous, awkward, or unpleasant.

 

[Chuck]

Chuck, if you want to optimize your container culture, the 'experiment' described on this thread is not the way to do it.

Instead, do a simple experiment in which you set up several identical containers, and then alter only one variable. For example, if you want to optimize fertilizing, have one container planted with compost-enriched soil, another with chicken-manure enriched soil, another with a complete liquid formula (perhaps several different brands or formulae), yet others with granular, time-released formulae.
Of course, you could also have treatments using all the same fertilizer, but at different concentrations or frequency of application.
...and yes, you could also have containers, both with and without pieces of wood at the bottom.

I do agree that you should judge the results based on resource inputs, as well as quality and yield.
Of course, a high-yielding method would not be satisfactory if it was also too expensive, laborious, dangerous, awkward, or unpleasant.

There you go again trying to make something more difficult and not really needed. If and when it is decided that this method will be FEASIBLE then it MIGHT be advantageous to test as you suggest. As we have said numerous times before, high production is NOT a goal. In my circumstance not having to bend over deeply is priority #1. #2 is keeping off of my knees and #3 is no heavy lifting. Doing as you suggest will tell us the best way for the most production. I already know the percentage of the increased production in ground planting over NON Hugelkulture container plantings. In my case it is about 35%. If I can produce only 50% of my inground plantings with the Hugelkulture that will still be more than enough production for my wife and I and it will keep me mobile. I have been growing tomatoes and peppers long enough to know, just by looking at the plant, of whether more or less or a different fertilizer is actually needed. Feasibility is key. If production is drastically reduced, say to around 80% of inground plantings then that is the time reconsider its feasibility and/or further testing and not before.

 

[skinyea]

I am interested in it to see if it will make container growing easier. it is that simple

 

[Meadowlark]

I am interested in it to see if it will make container growing easier. it is that simple

Skinyea,

Rereading your post, I noticed that "Okra" was one listed that your neighbor grew. Okra is one of my favorite garden veggies, certainly in the top three. We grow copious amounts every year...so I'm going to make up a third tub, wizard behind the curtain faints, to try out. That would be a game changer indeed for me if okra works in Hugelkulture container...but I have my doubts. I'll probably plant two or three seeds in the new tub to start.

 

[skinyea]

Skinyea,

Rereading your post, I noticed that "Okra" was one listed that your neighbor grew. Okra is one of my favorite garden veggies, certainly in the top three. We grow copious amounts every year...so I'm going to make up a third tub, wizard behind the curtain faints, to try out. That would be a game changer indeed for me if okra works in Hugelkulture container...but I have my doubts. I'll probably plant two or three seeds in the new tub to start.

I grow okra in containers every year. this will be my 1st year trying it in Hugelkulture container.

 

[Chuck]

Skinyea,

Rereading your post, I noticed that "Okra" was one listed that your neighbor grew. Okra is one of my favorite garden veggies, certainly in the top three. We grow copious amounts every year...so I'm going to make up a third tub, wizard behind the curtain faints, to try out. That would be a game changer indeed for me if okra works in Hugelkulture container...but I have my doubts. I'll probably plant two or three seeds in the new tub to start.

Speaking of okra. Have you ever planted okra in blocks like with corn? I have a small area of about 12' x 12' that I normally grow melons in. It would be more difficult to harvest but If I had a walkway down the middle I wonder how production would be if I planted rows 12" apart with 12" spacing between plants. Usually I plant okra 16" apart with row spacing of 3'. It would be like the old French Intensive Gardening craze from back in the 80's. I am like you, okra is probably my favorite and is excellent when frozen. I have a 60' row for okra but too much okra seems just about the right amount.

 

[Meadowlark]

No Chuck, I haven't but no reason I can see that it wouldn't work. On spacing, I normally use 12 inches or even less and it seems to not mind at all. We grow so much some years that I swear I could supply the entire surrounding community for miles.

I tried that hybrid okra jambalaya last year and it was really good. I usually let a couple of plants mature to save okra seeds, but that hybrid seed didn't store well at all. They claim hybrid and if true the seeds probably wouldn't be true anyway.

 

[DirtMechanic]

@Meadowlark I am gonna point out you better kill some tree rats or something and toss them in there. Your test is missing a natural part of hugelkulture, its environment and the protein containing critters that come with it. After all the decomposition will be helped with the amino acids from the protien breakdown and I suppose the Nitrogen suck of the decomposition will moderate if you add N. I guess worms or something else might do it too, but it is a container and that breaks the natural plan and puts the parts in your hands.

 

[Chuck]

No Chuck, I haven't but no reason I can see that it wouldn't work. On spacing, I normally use 12 inches or even less and it seems to not mind at all. We grow so much some years that I swear I could supply the entire surrounding community for miles.

I tried that hybrid okra jambalaya last year and it was really good. I usually let a couple of plants mature to save okra seeds, but that hybrid seed didn't store well at all. They claim hybrid and if true the seeds probably wouldn't be true anyway.

I use the same seeds from a direct line of seeds from the early 1800's. These seeds came over with the first Polish settlers in Texas. I got my start with these seeds about 35 years ago from a direct descendant of these early settlers. This same cultivar of seeds is now sold online under the name of Beck's Big Buck or Snapping Okra but I sorta doubt that it will do good anywhere but around here as I am sure that they have acclimatized and naturalized to this area. It is a big okra in diameter (1 1/4" - 1 1/2") and stays tender to a larger length than any other okra I have seen.

 

[Meadowlark]

@Meadowlark I am gonna point out you better kill some tree rats or something and toss them in there. Your test is missing a natural part of hugelkulture, its environment and the protein containing critters that come with it. After all the decomposition will be helped with the amino acids from the protien breakdown and I suppose the Nitrogen suck of the decomposition will moderate if you add N. I guess worms or something else might do it too, but it is a container and that breaks the natural plan and puts the parts in your hands.

Interesting comment. Thank you.

A couple of things to point out:

1) my materials are as natural as can be...literally right off the property...and very well decayed.

2) My garden soil used in the tub is right out of a thick alfalfa bed turned under and tested out with high nitrogen values...same as the control plants will be in.

I've also wondered about the N2 but feel those facts of decayed materials and alfalfa bed might mitigate any N2 "suck" but that's all part of the experiment.

Were you serious about the tree rats? LOL. I researched briefly but didn't find where the "old timers" used animal protein in their hügelkultur beds. Would be interested if you have a reference. In doing just another very brief research, I learned this stuff goes back literally centuries. Fascinating.

 

[Chuck]

I have an extra Celebrity seedling and I am going to try this experiment in a 10 gallon grow bag, but I am going to do it slightly different. I am going to use fairly good sized well rotted oak limbs packed into the bottom and then put in a shovel full of well aged leaf mold to fill in the voids. Then add more of the oak limbs and leaf mold until the container is about 3/4 full. Then I will fill the container with the garden soil from my old garden completely full but add the normal amount of 3-2-3 that I use on my inground plantings. It will subside about 15% after watering a few times There is already copious amounts of compost in this soil. I expect this will weigh considerably less than a grow bag full of garden soil and maybe it will even grow something. Will post pictures

P.S. I will pick up some roadkill possum or skunk on the way back from the Post Office and throw it in about half deep.

 

[Meadowlark]

This is really getting interesting...and 10 gallon will definitely add more data for all of us, except of course for the wizard behind the curtain. I hope more will join in the fun.

Are you guys serious about the animal protein? I have 5 ponds stocked full of fish some of which would make some really good protein.

 

[Chuck]

This is really getting interesting...and 10 gallon will definitely add more data for all of us, except of course for the wizard behind the curtain. I hope more will join in the fun.

Are you guys serious about the animal protein? I have 5 ponds stocked full of fish some of which would make some really good protein.

No. If I put an animal or a fish into anything I would have instant fire ants. It is hard enough keeping them off of my okra as it is.

 

[Marck]

2) My garden soil used in the tub is right out of a thick alfalfa bed turned under and tested out with high nitrogen values...same as the control plants will be in.

Oh Please..

Wow! Not only will that Nitrogen-rich soil "prevent Nitrogen suck" it will also do a great job of fertilizing your peppers and tomatoes.

As for the pieces of wood in the bottom, in a few years they might add some carbon to the soil.

Just remember to keep putting in Nitrogen-rich compost, or some other fertilizer... and please stop calling this Hugelkultur.