What does organic mean?

[Oliver Buckle]

What does 'organic' mean to you? When I was at school I was taught it as a chemistry term meaning molecules containing carbon, then it seemed to come to mean something like 'naturally occurring, then something like causing minimal harm.
As an example modern slug pellets are labelled 'organic', they contain an iron / chlorine salt which attacks the slug's 'liver', no carbon molecules involved, an artificially produced metallic salt, and I am cautious about upping the amounts of available iron, surely it is not only going to affect slugs. Okay, they are a lot less harmful than the old metaldehyde pellets, that's horridly poisonous, causes brain damage in mammals, but I don't know of any research into the effects of iron salts, and I can't really see any justification for that big stripe on the label saying 'Organic', what does it mean?

 

[redback]

I tried to figure out what 'organic architecture' was once. I came upon a rectangular block of a high-rise building that called itself 'organic' because the reception desk on the ground floor had a curve in it. I gave up. I now mean 'natural' when I use the word 'organic'.
Nature has no straight lines and no apparent order of the methodical/mechanical kind.

 

[Sean Regan]

For most people, "Expensive."

 

[Susan BBPM]

What does 'organic' mean to you? When I was at school I was taught it as a chemistry term meaning molecules containing carbon, then it seemed to come to mean something like 'naturally occurring, then something like causing minimal harm.
As an example modern slug pellets are labelled 'organic', they contain an iron / chlorine salt which attacks the slug's 'liver', no carbon molecules involved, an artificially produced metallic salt, and I am cautious about upping the amounts of available iron, surely it is not only going to affect slugs. Okay, they are a lot less harmful than the old metaldehyde pellets, that's horridly poisonous, causes brain damage in mammals, but I don't know of any research into the effects of iron salts, and I can't really see any justification for that big stripe on the label saying 'Organic', what does it mean?

Without chemicals.

I know that in order to sell something as organic you have to be able to prove that nothing brought into your garden beds/fields had chemicals in it - so compost, manure etc. Even seeds I think?

I don't think organic equates to safe to wildlife/environment though.

Neem is organic. But neem does kill insects. I don't think you can assume organic is harmless to the environment. For example, Japanese Knot Weed is organic - it's a plant - but if you introduce it into your garden it will, through a chain of events, wreak havoc.

Nematodes are organic, but if you kill of slugs completely the predators won't come. It's impossible to predict what the knock on effects of that are.

Even down to controversial issues like tilling your soil. It's organic - especially if you're tilling in green manures. But reserchers say it does disturb and kill off the soil life. That in turn can have devastating effects. Even very environmentally friendly approaches can be devastating to the envirionment if you're stripping resources from one location to improve another. Use of peat to improve soil fertility is an example, but use of compost could also be problematic if you're stripping organic matter from a wildlife habitat to improve your fields/garden beds.

 

[big rockpile]

Without chemicals.

I know that in order to sell something as organic you have to be able to prove that nothing brought into your garden beds/fields had chemicals in it - so compost, manure etc. Even seeds I think?

I don't think organic equates to safe to wildlife/environment though.

Neem is organic. But neem does kill insects. I don't think you can assume organic is harmless to the environment. For example, Japanese Knot Weed is organic - it's a plant - but if you introduce it into your garden it will, through a chain of events, wreak havoc.

Nematodes are organic, but if you kill of slugs completely the predators won't come. It's impossible to predict what the knock on effects of that are.

Even down to controversial issues like tilling your soil. It's organic - especially if you're tilling in green manures. But reserchers say it does disturb and kill off the soil life. That in turn can have devastating effects. Even very environmentally friendly approaches can be devastating to the envirionment if you're stripping resources from one location to improve another. Use of peat to improve soil fertility is an example, but use of compost could also be problematic if you're stripping organic matter from a wildlife habitat to improve your fields/garden beds.

I was thinking of putting plastic for awhile on my Garden to kill weeds but got to thinking it will also kill Microbes so I don't think it will work.

Had a problem with Fungus Gnats. I didn't read directions and over did it with Mosquito Bits. My plants did not like this. Their still living but I was sure scared.

big rockpile

 

[pepper]

Aside from government definition of what is considered organic to be able to label something as organic for marketing, it's one of those things that you ask 100 people you will get a bunch of different answers. Some people say not using synthetic fert is organic, some say if you use anything at all that didn't come from nature such as a plastic garden hose with city water it's not organic. I figure there is micro plastics and pollution on every spec of earth by now so if that's the case nothing is organic lol.

 

[big rockpile]

If you use a Synthetic Fertilizer it will work faster but may burn your plants.

Lots of stuff is made for immediate results. Which is what some like.

I'm more of a set back and wait kind of guy.

big rockpile

 

[Oliver Buckle]

Aside from government definition of what is considered organic to be able to label something as organic for marketing, it's one of those things that you ask 100 people you will get a bunch of different answers. Some people say not using synthetic fert is organic, some say if you use anything at all that didn't come from nature such as a plastic garden hose with city water it's not organic. I figure there is micro plastics and pollution on every spec of earth by now so if that's the case nothing is organic lol.

Years ago I read about a spring in Switzerland which was the only known source which didn't carry radioactive particles from the first tests. They were exporting a train load of water every day, I don't know if the pollution has seeped through under the alps yet, but think, every single bit of water polluted, irredeemable.

 

[pepper]

Years ago I read about a spring in Switzerland which was the only known source which didn't carry radioactive particles from the first tests. They were exporting a train load of water every day, I don't know if the pollution has seeped through under the alps yet, but think, every single bit of water polluted, irredeemable.

I was reading something about scientists starting to find microplastics in women's placentas now. Apparently there isn't a fish that doesn't have micro plastic in it. It's everywhere lol. I try not to think about it but the world is fubar lol.

This is from Google, although it was a science article where I was reading about it...

Microplastics were detected in all tested placentas. The average abundance was 2.7 particles per gram of placenta. Among detected microplastics, 11 polymer types were identified. Polyvinyl chloride was the most frequently seen polymer, with an average abundance of 1.19 particles per gram of placenta.

 

[big rockpile]

HMM just had Seafood Lasagna

 

[pepper]

HMM just had Seafood Lasagna

Did it taste like plastic and uranium?

 

[big rockpile]

Did it taste like plastic and uranium?

Actually it tasted pretty good but that don't mean anything anymore.

Actually it all came out of Cocodrie Bay in Louisiana.

big rockpile

 

[MiniOrchardDude]

For most people, "Expensive."

ROFLMAO!

MOD

 

[redback]

Clear skies and the sun is out but 3 degrees Celsius on the grass. The weather is natural and unpredictable, and I would say that makes it part of the organism of life.
I look at the formality of 'no-dig' gardens like Huw's and Charles' and think more of food factories than organic gardens. They should have been examples of how to replace highly processed food but, ironically, they look highly processed themselves.
Give me David Holmgren's Permaculture Garden instead. He said something like - "after twenty years of gardening I have managed to grow a better class of weed." After twenty years at my place I have a hundred resident birds and both my wife and I think that watching them skylark, hover and dive through the sky is more fun than gardening.
Organic is more than just gardening. Enjoying a garden full of creatures is the reason we should be as fit, healthy and poison free as possible.

 

[pepper]

Actually it tasted pretty good but that don't mean anything anymore.

Actually it all came out of Cocodrie Bay in Louisiana.

big rockpile

One of my bucket list items is to have crawfish and BBQ from Louisiana.