Orange and Lemon trees in bad shape, help please!

[JamesBlueThumb]

Hi everyone

I'm so glad I found this forum, I've read some of the topics in recent weeks and thought I would join the community in hopes of getting help.

I have a lemon tree, Kumquat, and Orange tree that all look like they're in rough shape. I have no idea what the problem is. I don't see bugs on them. I water them frequently, and their leaves just begin to look horrible. I've tried removing the bad leaves and that resulted in new growth which was great. Weeks later, they too look bad

I've uploaded pictures hoping someone could help. If you zoom in you'll see what I mean. These are not big trees, when I purchased them they looked great in lowes. Then here, they end up looking like they do now.

Do you know what is causing this or what can be done? I'm in Naples, FL if that helps. Thank you!!

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

I thought I would add two more pictures if a different citrus tree of mine since the first two may have been a little blurry

 

[Chuck]

A few questions please. With what and how often have your fertilized. How often do you water? If the trees are in the lawn grass have you done any lawn treatments? What have you sprayed the trees with if you have sprayed? How long have the trees been in the ground?

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

I've fertilized with 8-8-8 organic fertilizer a few times this year since we have very sandy soil. I've also put kmag once every few months. But very importantly, this was happening even before I started to do the fertilizing and kmag applications.

It's rainy season now so it's raining almost everyday. Before that, I was watering with the sprinklers every other night.

I just started treating the grass for ants 3 months ago, I don't know what they're using. However, this problem was also happening before I started treating the yard.

One of the trees has been in the ground for 6 years, the other two have been in the ground for 2 years and the lemon tree I sent on my second post has only been in the ground for 1 year. Thanks!

James

 

[Chuck]

I've fertilized with 8-8-8 organic fertilizer a few times this year since we have very sandy soil. I've also put kmag once every few months. But very importantly, this was happening even before I started to do the fertilizing and kmag applications.

It's rainy season now so it's raining almost everyday. Before that, I was watering with the sprinklers every other night.

I just started treating the grass for ants 3 months ago, I don't know what they're using. However, this problem was also happening before I started treating the yard.

One of the trees has been in the ground for 6 years, the other two have been in the ground for 2 years and the lemon tree I sent on my second post has only been in the ground for 1 year. Thanks!

James

The only thing I can definitely see from the pictures is that in all 4 pictures you have a citrus leafminer problem. In the first two pictures is shown what appears to be mildew on the edges of a lot of the leaves but not on all of the trees. But what bothers me most is the pictures with the new growth a bright yellow color. This sort of reminds me of citrus greening disease. Are the fruits distorted or damaged in any way? Too small? Not many?

 

[roadrunner]

I've fertilized with 8-8-8 organic fertilizer a few times this year since we have very sandy soil. I've also put kmag once every few months. But very importantly, this was happening even before I started to do the fertilizing and kmag applications.

It's rainy season now so it's raining almost everyday. Before that, I was watering with the sprinklers every other night.

I just started treating the grass for ants 3 months ago, I don't know what they're using. However, this problem was also happening before I started treating the yard.

One of the trees has been in the ground for 6 years, the other two have been in the ground for 2 years and the lemon tree I sent on my second post has only been in the ground for 1 year. Thanks!

James

You don't need to water every other night, that's a little too much. I would rip up all the grass around the trees and heavily mulch the area with leaves. Grass sucks up much of the nutrients that could go to the trees. I can't give advice on fertilizing, since I've never fertilized, but I do have a Meyer lemon tree that was looking a little rough for a couple years and this past winter I planted fava beans around it to add nitrogen to the soil) and it's looking great this year.

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

The only thing I can definitely see from the pictures is that in all 4 pictures you have a citrus leafminer problem. In the first two pictures is shown what appears to be mildew on the edges of a lot of the leaves but not on all of the trees. But what bothers me most is the pictures with the new growth a bright yellow color. This sort of reminds me of citrus greening disease. Are the fruits distorted or damaged in any way? Too small? Not many?

Hey Chuck. Unfortunately they are too small to have fruit. One of the trees has had 1 lemon that was very very small last year and that was it. What can I do about the leaf miner problem?

I don't worry too much about the fertilizing, what worries me is the way these leaves are getting as soon as they're just a few days old. Should I pull off all of the bad curled leaves? Do leaves themselves ever heal, or do they need to be removed so that new ones can grow? Any help would be appreciated. I have spent so much time on this, and it seems everytime I get one of these nice looking citrus trees, they begin to look like this when I plant them and I cannot for the life of me figure out why or what is causing it. Thanks

James

 

[Chuck]

All of your trees are stunted. A 6 year old citrus tree, unless a dwarf, should be 10-15 feet tall. They are in very sandy soil and in sandy soil nutrients leach out rapidly when it rains. No nutrients no growth. If it were me I would remove all of the grass in a 3 foot radius of the tree, make sure the root flare is showing and then put down a thick layer of compost in that area and fertilize. The only thing you can do about leaf miners is to set out pheromone traps for the moths that lay the eggs.
Leave the leafs alone as long as they are green. They will continue to aid in photosynthesis even if they are disfigured. When new leaves are yellow there is either a severe nitrogen or iron depletion or both.
Herbicide damage looks like what you have going on but you said the only thing applied was for ants. Is there any way for runoff from surrounding areas to be able to end up on your property? Many people use Scotts Weed and Feed on their lawns and that stuff will cause damage like that to trees. Have you ever had your soil tested? This entire problem could be solved with a professional test being done. The following link is the best lab that I know off.
www.texasplantandsoillab.com

 

[roadrunner]

I agree, very sandy soil, as Chuck said. I can see the barren sand under your grass in your first picture. I wouldn't worry about the leaf miners, every gardener has leaf miners, plants are very good at dealing with them; they are the least of your problems.

Your trees need nutrients, rip up the grass as Chuck says.

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. I'll rip up the grass again on these trees are start trying to be more frequent with the fertilizing. Someone recommended once every 2 weeks (8-8-8) and I thought that was too much so I didn't listen. They said it was how it needed to be done in this area due to the very sandy soil. I'm located in Naples, Florida, and we're very close to the beach where I live. I'm the only one that seems to love my gardens and have the hardest time with it. I didn't have this problem when I lived a little further north. I'll start applying Kmag every two weeks as well.

I bought a concentrated organic minor nutrients product I guess I will spray on the leaves after mixing with water. I thought my problem was bugs, but I'm beginning to see what you all mean. There is no runoff that I know of, I have about 2 acres of land and neighbors who don't use any type of spraying.

I did have a question. With these minor nutrients, the bottle says there are two ways to apply it: On the leaves themselves, or in the soil. Which do you think I should do? Thank you!

James

 

[Chuck]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. I'll rip up the grass again on these trees are start trying to be more frequent with the fertilizing. Someone recommended once every 2 weeks (8-8-8) and I thought that was too much so I didn't listen. They said it was how it needed to be done in this area due to the very sandy soil. I'm located in Naples, Florida, and we're very close to the beach where I live. I'm the only one that seems to love my gardens and have the hardest time with it. I didn't have this problem when I lived a little further north. I'll start applying Kmag every two weeks as well.

I bought a concentrated organic minor nutrients product I guess I will spray on the leaves after mixing with water. I thought my problem was bugs, but I'm beginning to see what you all mean. There is no runoff that I know of, I have about 2 acres of land and neighbors who don't use any type of spraying.

I did have a question. With these minor nutrients, the bottle says there are two ways to apply it: On the leaves themselves, or in the soil. Which do you think I should do? Thank you!

James

Both

 

[roadrunner]

Hi,

Thanks for the information. I'll rip up the grass again on these trees are start trying to be more frequent with the fertilizing. Someone recommended once every 2 weeks (8-8-8) and I thought that was too much so I didn't listen. They said it was how it needed to be done in this area due to the very sandy soil. I'm located in Naples, Florida, and we're very close to the beach where I live. I'm the only one that seems to love my gardens and have the hardest time with it. I didn't have this problem when I lived a little further north. I'll start applying Kmag every two weeks as well.

I bought a concentrated organic minor nutrients product I guess I will spray on the leaves after mixing with water. I thought my problem was bugs, but I'm beginning to see what you all mean. There is no runoff that I know of, I have about 2 acres of land and neighbors who don't use any type of spraying.

I did have a question. With these minor nutrients, the bottle says there are two ways to apply it: On the leaves themselves, or in the soil. Which do you think I should do? Thank you!

James

I also live in Florida and only about a mile from the beach, so I know what you're dealing with, with respect to sandy soil. My soil is exactly the same and before I started heavily mulching (and composting) the soil looked very whitish-gray and was very barren and almost nothing could live in it, especially worms.

Now it looks very lush and I can grow anything.

In the above post I mentioned that my Meyer lemon tree use to look bad and I believe that's because they are relatively heavy "feeders" and while my soil was nutrient rich, I always allowed a ton of plants to grow under my tree, taking away much of the nutrients, especially nitrogen. This year I grew fava beans under the tree to replace nitrogen and I keep much of the undergrowth cut away.

Here are some before and after pics.

Here is what my tree use to look like; it still produced, but it was pitiful looking. (BTW this tree is a few years old and is about 6-1/2 ft tall).








And here is what the tree looks like today -- pic taken about 2-weeks ago

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

Wow what a difference. It looks great now, good job on that. My only concern is that my trees don't look like yours did in the 'before' pics, mine look very curled and as if something is killing them. They are in very very very poor shape, so I'm beginning to wonder if it's just a lack of nutrients that is causing this, or something bigger than that. I just don't understand it..

 

[JamesBlueThumb]

Here are better quality images of the two I took above.
http://imgur.com/a/kP5Hp
http://imgur.com/a/Aq9aJ
If you look closely, they are completely curled up. Especially in the first image, in the center. It's not happening to all of the leaves, just most of them.

 

[Chuck]

Here are better quality images of the two I took above.
http://imgur.com/a/kP5Hp
http://imgur.com/a/Aq9aJ
If you look closely, they are completely curled up. Especially in the first image, in the center. It's not happening to all of the leaves, just most of them.

In the first picture what is that white stuff on the leaves. Have you sprayed with soap? It looks a lot like scale insects and if it is they will surely make leaves curl.