New here and needing advice/direction

[PlanB]

Hello everyone. I live in central Idaho. I am new to this discussion forum, recently retired, and like Tolkien's Hobbits, I have a love for growing things but by hook and crook. I just bought myself a little green house so that I can harvest seeds from this years flowers and attempt making my own starts next spring. My question today is centered around amending soil. I have a mountain home on an east facing hillside. Sunrises are spectacular!! I have a retaining wall, approximately 200', that is cut back into the hillside. I have approximately 3' of flat growing area behind the wall before it slopes uphill. The soil is made up of a lot of decomposed granite. This soil is very hard, almost cement hard when it is dry and loosens up like a bowl of oatmeal when is wet. I should have backfilled with top soil but used soil from the hillside. Too late to change now. I have Dwarf Alberta Spruce planted every 8' and used garden to fill the holes and have them on a drop system. So far after two winters the trees are doing just fine. I want to amend the soil between the trees so I may plant flowers and ornamental grasses. What would be the best additions to the soil to make it more loamy and drain well. I do have the ability to use a rototiller. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

[oneeye]

Your thread sounds very interesting, I would love to see photos. Can you post some photos so I can better understanding?

 

[Oliver Buckle]

What would be the best additions to the soil to make it more loamy and drain well. I do have the ability to use a rototiller. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Hi, welcome to the forum.
My choice would be dead leaves, till them in so they don't blow away and so they rot down. Look around come Autumn and you can usually find plenty people are only too glad to loose, sometimes they have already gathered them up and stood them out in bags for collection, I don't suppose your own trees are producing enough yet
A friend told me of an experiment they did in horticultural college pouring an excessive amount of water through various mediums, clay, sand, loam etc., and measuring how long it took to drain and how much water was retained. Leaf mould finished draining fastest, but also retained the most water. It is amazing stuff for lightening the soil and keeping it moist, but there is not a great deal of nutrient in it, wood ash is good for flowers, for nitrogen you could grow a legume based green manure and till it in.

 

[PlanB]

Your thread sounds very interesting, I would love to see photos. Can you post some photos so I can better understanding?

I will post some photos my next trip to the property. Likely next week.

 

[PlanB]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
My choice would be dead leaves, till them in so they don't blow away and so they rot down. Look around come Autumn and you can usually find plenty people are only too glad to loose, sometimes they have already gathered them up and stood them out in bags for collection, I don't suppose your own trees are producing enough yet
A friend told me of an experiment they did in horticultural college pouring an excessive amount of water through various mediums, clay, sand, loam etc., and measuring how long it took to drain and how much water was retained. Leaf mould finished draining fastest, but also retained the most water. It is amazing stuff for lightening the soil and keeping it moist, but there is not a great deal of nutrient in it, wood ash is good for flowers, for nitrogen you could grow a legume based green manure and till it in.

One thing I do have plenty of is pine needles and cones however I am not sure of much nutrient contribution and I know they take a lot of time to break down. Yes I can get my hands on a great deal of leaf material this fall. I was thinking of laying down 4-5 inch bed of leaves and keeping it wetted. Snow and freeze will keep it in place for the winter and then till it in come spring while the soil is still moist. Not much local access to manure. The larger cattle producers process their cattle waste and it is sold commercially by the bag. I may break down and get it by the bag though. Our home centers also offer bark mulch and I am curious if tilling that into the soil would have any advantages.

 

[PlanB]

Hello everyone. I live in central Idaho. I am new to this discussion forum, recently retired, and like Tolkien's Hobbits, I have a love for growing things but by hook and crook. I just bought myself a little green house so that I can harvest seeds from this years flowers and attempt making my own starts next spring. My question today is centered around amending soil. I have a mountain home on an east facing hillside. Sunrises are spectacular!! I have a retaining wall, approximately 200', that is cut back into the hillside. I have approximately 3' of flat growing area behind the wall before it slopes uphill. The soil is made up of a lot of decomposed granite. This soil is very hard, almost cement hard when it is dry and loosens up like a bowl of oatmeal when is wet. I should have backfilled with top soil but used soil from the hillside. Too late to change now. I have Dwarf Alberta Spruce planted every 8' and used garden to fill the holes and have them on a drop system. So far after two winters the trees are doing just fine. I want to amend the soil between the trees so I may plant flowers and ornamental grasses. What would be the best additions to the soil to make it more loamy and drain well. I do have the ability to use a rototiller. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

Forgive some of my misspellings. I meant to say garden soil to fill the holes for the Dwarf Alberta Spruce trees and have them on a drip system. The Dwarf Alberta Spruce have a smaller and non invasive root system that will allow them to grow and not damage the retaining wall. I have two in a berm at my main home that are 10' tall that I decorate as out door Christmas trees every season.

 

[Oliver Buckle]

No direct experience, but I seem to remember someone recommending pine needles for blue berries because they are acidic.

I don't know, but usually people have great trouble trying to change the ph of their soil, it always tends to revert to what it was, so I would go ahead and do as you suggest, till in the needles , then a good layer of leaves.
I have just put a layer of leaves like that on a hügelkultur patch and then emptied the mower on them to hold them down, I still have some earth from the hole to put back on top. I would reckon that initially at least any sort of shredded plant material is going to help. People say that rotting wood takes nitrogen from the soil, it can't, where would it go? It is an element and it won't get created or destroyed, it just might get tied up for a bit while the microbes eating the wood use it, but if the wood is shredded and tilled into the earth that won't take forever.

 

[PlanB]

Hi, welcome to the forum.
My choice would be dead leaves, till them in so they don't blow away and so they rot down. Look around come Autumn and you can usually find plenty people are only too glad to loose, sometimes they have already gathered them up and stood them out in bags for collection, I don't suppose your own trees are producing enough yet
A friend told me of an experiment they did in horticultural college pouring an excessive amount of water through various mediums, clay, sand, loam etc., and measuring how long it took to drain and how much water was retained. Leaf mould finished draining fastest, but also retained the most water. It is amazing stuff for lightening the soil and keeping it moist, but there is not a great deal of nutrient in it, wood ash is good for flowers, for nitrogen you could grow a legume based green manure and till it in.

I don't produce enough leaf fall at my home to benefit the soil amendment at my cabin property but you made a valid point about people putting out in bags for collection. Not everyone composts and several of my neighbors do fill paper leaf bags for collection. I will ask in advance if I can snag some from them.