Frustration Reigns!

[A. Lyric]

Last summer, in a moment of keen frustration I wondered if there was a gardening forum where I might get help. There was and I did.

I have nothing edible growing now, but I still visit this forum about twice a week. I type two names in the search bar and stalk two posters.

Chuck and Meadowlark.

My gardening know-how is mostly a blank page. I'm dependent on what I can learn via Google, watching YouTube, or “stalking”.

But I feel so confused and frustrated! I just read controversy over using a combination of compost, peat, and perlite as a planting medium.

That's what I filled my raised beds with. And what I filled my grow bags with last spring. And now I'm hearing it's essentially worthless.

Years before I began gardening I read Mel Bartholomew's Square Foot Gardening book, and that medium was his recommendation.

It's recommended by Gardener Scott on YouTube, I believe, altho' I also listen to Garden Fundamentals who advises compost and top soil.

Who/what can you trust? Where the heck can you safely put your faith? Was Mel Bartholemew nuts?
Why all the misinformation?!

Makes me wanna kick my dog! (Sigh. No worries. I don't have a dog.)

 

[Meadowlark]

I'm really sorry you are frustrated...gardening is a great source of relieving frustration for me and many of us. It should be fun.

As to the thread you mentioned, I believe the main point of contention was the claim that the mixture of peat, compost, and perlite was all that is needed...no fertilizer needed or required. Also, some rabbit trails on the supposed need to "cook" that mixture, whatever that means.

I've never used that mixture, but I certainly trust the judgement of @Chuck on it. Just looking at the ingredients, I would say the mixture is probably woefully lacking in macro nutrients and about the only thing it would be good for would be germinating seeds.

Compost can be made of infinitely different combinations of ingredients all with varying amounts of nutrients. I'd guess that most are lacking in sufficient N-P-K to grow veggies, but some, such as the compost I make, tests out as "No N-P-K required".

It all depends on what the ingredients are.

...Years before I began gardening I read Mel Bartholomew's Square Foot Gardening book, and that medium was his recommendation.

It's recommended by Gardener Scott on YouTube, I believe, altho' I also listen to Garden Fundamentals who advises compost and top soil.

Of the above, my experience would say that the Garden Fundamentals comes closest to being sound advice but again it all depends on the compost comp.

...Who/what can you trust? Where the heck can you safely put your faith? Was Mel Bartholemew nuts?
Why all the misinformation?! ...

I don't know the answers to the above questions...but trusting and/or putting faith in ANYTHING on the 'net is at best highly risky. So many (most) people have their own agendas.

The truth is you can't trust anything without verification.

...
Makes me wanna kick my dog! (Sigh. No worries. I don't have a dog.)

As a dog lover, that's cringeworthy.

I like to think of gardening as a journey not a destination. After well over half a century of growing stuff, I'm still learning and still experimenting on best practices. Anyone that claims to have all the answers should absolutely not be trusted.

 

[A. Lyric]

As a dog lover, that's cringeworthy.

Yes, it is. In my case, it's also laughable.

After well over half a century of growing stuff, I'm still learning and still experimenting on best practices.

That's what makes you such an inspiration, Meadowlark! I find your everlasting interest, curiosity, and enthusiasm just amazing. And while I doubt you or Chuck know "everything", you literally have decades of hands-on experience. Which makes you worthy of stalking.

BTW, thanks to you, I have a cover crop growing in both my raised beds and my containers. How's it look?

 

[Meadowlark]

How's it look?

Fantastic!! I see winter rye and clover?

You are on your way, my friend.

 

[A. Lyric]

Fantastic!! I see winter rye and clover?

You are on your way, my friend.

You recommended Elbon Rye, Outsidepride Whie Dutch Clover, and Outsidepride Crimson Clover so that's exactly what I planted. This is my first experience with a cover crop, planted Sept. 12. Actually, I'd never heard of a cover crop. You're an "influencer".

 

[cpp gardener]

It’s true that compost, peat moss and perlite don’t have a lot of nutrients in and of themselves, but as a base medium for growing plants they’re fantastic. Almost any medium needs supplementation after time and that’s what cover crops and fertilizer are for.
So, don’t panic or throw everything out and start over. Keep doing what you’re doing and learn from others, filtering information through your experience and knowledge, and enjoy the journey. I don’t know everything either, even with 50+ years of gardening and a Bachelor’s degree in Horticulture.

 

[A. Lyric]

It’s true that compost, peat moss and perlite don’t have a lot of nutrients in and of themselves, but as a base medium for growing plants they’re fantastic. Almost any medium needs supplementation after time and that’s what cover crops and fertilizer are for.
So, don’t panic or throw everything out and start over. Keep doing what you’re doing and learn from others, filtering information through your experience and knowledge, and enjoy the journey. I don’t know everything either, even with 50+ years of gardening and a Bachelor’s degree in Horticulture.

Okay. That's helpful. I wish I had Mel Bartholomew's book again because I'm wondering if maybe he did cover fertilizer and all I took away was mushroom compost, peat moss, and perlite. I read it back when having a garden was something I really wanted but was years away. So if you have a cover crop do you still need fertilizer? The more I learn about gardening, the more complicated it seems. lol

 

[cpp gardener]

The short answer is, yes, at least in the short term. The cover crop builds the organic content in the soil which eventually breaks down and releases nutrients. For your first few seasons you will need to apply nutrients until the soil has sufficient for strong plant growth.
Gardening is as simple or as complicated as you make it.

 

[Mick Emery]

The "compost" in Mel's book is 5 different composts which includes mainly manures.

 

[A. Lyric]

The short answer is, yes, at least in the short term. The cover crop builds the organic content in the soil which eventually breaks down and releases nutrients. For your first few seasons you will need to apply nutrients until the soil has sufficient for strong plant growth.
Gardening is as simple or as complicated as you make it.

It's not my intention to complicate it. I just want to know enough to do it right. To have healthy soil and happy plants.

 

[A. Lyric]

The "compost" in Mel's book is 5 different composts which includes mainly manures.

Thank you. Was he recommending all five to build garden soil, or listing five to choose from?
Obviously, I need to read his book again! Or find a good gardening book I can use for a reference
that's fairly comprehensive, trustworthy, easy to read, and easy to understand. Gosh, I wouldn't
know where to start. Maybe Chuck and Meadowlark will write one. Or maybe you have one
you can recommend?

 

[Mick Emery]

He just said to choose & USE all 5. The combination of nutrients in a blend of 5 manures/composts would provide what's necessary.

 

[A. Lyric]

Any soil amendments I add to my garden come in bags from a store. I bet the cost is significantly different now than it might have been 43 years ago when Square Foot Gardening came out.

BTW, you are I are in the same planting zone, 1000 miles apart. This minute in my location, it's 34 degrees and supposed to reach 58. Temp where you're at is 47. I thought PA was way colder than MO but at least for now you're quite a bit warmer up there.

 

[Meadowlark]

.... So if you have a cover crop do you still need fertilizer? The more I learn about gardening, the more complicated it seems. lol

It isn't a "yes" or "no" question. The answer all depends on the cover crop (how much nitrogen does it add), the compost (what are the nutrients in the compost) and your starting point garden soil (what nutrients does it need).

I have demonstrated that in as little as 6 weeks one can reach the "No N-P-K required" level with only cover crops and compost and starting with a depleted garden soil.

See the thread:

Small scale demonstration of biodynamic farming, soil replenishment, cover cropping, crop rotation, permaculture, polyculture, and organic gardening

No worries. Nothing more anoying than someone banging on endlessly about their pet project and inserting it into every thread going. My bad xx LOL

www.gardening-forums.com

Please note that I ran soil tests before and after. Zero synthetics were applied.

Anyone can do this. It does NOT require multiple years and growing seasons to achieve.

... For your first few seasons you will need to apply nutrients until the soil has sufficient for strong plant growth.

It can be done in as little as 6 weeks with the right cover crop and compost. Soil tests are the only way to know for certain and precisely what nutrients are in your soil.

You may or may not need added fertilizer next spring after turning your cover into the soil and presumably adding a composted manure...it all depends. One thing for certain, your soil will be much better next spring than it was this past spring.

 

[big rockpile]

I have several plants in Mel's mix and doing just fine.

Do not use synthetic Fertilizer in with it. It will kill the soil.

Remember you are not feeding the plants you are feeding Microbs in the soil.



I have been in Farming for over 60 years and worked as a Seedsman for several years.

I just ordered the book.

big rockpile