Carolina Cypress & where to plant?

[CreakyGardener]

Hey all! I picked up two 4.5ft Carolina Cypress trees on a whim. (example below) Always wanted to try them and add some color & texture variation. And I like the smell. I keep reading they don't care much for excess moisture. I always have trouble determining what those descriptions mean exactly, without some reference or measurement to compare. One person's wet feet is another's typical winter. So if a tree doesn't like wet feet, will winter ham it?

We have a high water table here according to my open hand dug well. Especially in rainy or winter season. Like 4-5' in winter and 8-10' in summer. In summer we can get hot in high 90's to 104* with no rain. In this area we have Fir Trees, Sequoia, Locust, Maple, Ash, and other typical variety of trees in this area that do very well. Although I have noticed the local Atlas Cedars seem to struggle as they get bigger, having issues. I've read they don't like wet feet and thought maybe as they got bigger the roots hit water? It could be anything, I'm just guessing here.

I have a large 6ft tall x 20ft mound that was originally part of pools and water falls into an old larger pond below that's dried up out of use now (previous owner). I would like to do more with this and make a scenic area and put chair and table in the pond. I was thinking about knocking some concrete off the top to open it up and planting a Carolina Cypress there. And using some of the pools below as planters. It has a 35 yr old heather oozing over the wall I'd like to show off more. My thinking is this mound would provide good drainage, but would the surrounding concrete hurt it or keep the roots from getting enough air in the soil? I could break more out to help that. Is this too high up and would freeze the roots during a hard winter? We're up a bit in a valley between two mountain ridges, and we do get snow / icy winters on occasion.

Anywhere I plant it will be full sun of course. But, does anyone think this Cypress would do well on flat ground after hearing the above? People do grow them here, but all the one's I've noticed are in steep or hilly neighborhoods.

I'd love one in my driveway berm! I have the perfect spot too. But when snow melts it can be pretty wet below and I worry about the roots getting soggy? Or would it have to be longer to do damage?

These are very root bound. I usually box cut something like that and free up the roots as much as I can. Will they be okay if I do this? Can they take a beating or are they sensitive to root damage and need to be nurtured more?

Thanks for reading my babble. Just trying to cover the bases. Hopefully it makes sense. HA Ha! Have a great weekend everybody.

 

[Tetters]

Hello @CreakyGardener I only just spotted your post. I thought it was very interesting babble, and have learned a thing or two from reading it....in fact I must make a point of watching out for some more interesting babble in the future
Our soil here never seems to get waterlogged, although we have a few cupressus trees planted.
As you'll already be aware, these are tough trees, and fast growing. I'm actually quite fond of mine. I think that a lot of drainage material would need to be added to the soil there because of the high water table, and although you may well get away with it, another plan could be to plant the tree (or trees) in some nice big pots, and stand them up on ''feet'' That should do the trick - these are quite well suited to pots. What do you think?

 

[CreakyGardener]

Hello @CreakyGardener I only just spotted your post. I thought it was very interesting babble, and have learned a thing or two from reading it....in fact I must make a point of watching out for some more interesting babble in the future
Our soil here never seems to get waterlogged, although we have a few cupressus trees planted.
As you'll already be aware, these are tough trees, and fast growing. I'm actually quite fond of mine. I think that a lot of drainage material would need to be added to the soil there because of the high water table, and although you may well get away with it, another plan could be to plant the tree (or trees) in some nice big pots, and stand them up on ''feet'' That should do the trick - these are quite well suited to pots. What do you think?

Hi Tetters and thanks! I'm not sure pots are an option for us, but I do like the idea very much. If they do well in pots, then maybe they'd do well on top of the giant mound. I was also hoping they'd block out some neighbors giant piles of trash and dogs that bark around the clock, so fast growing and bigger the better sound great - with a splash of color. Ha! I appreciate the encouraging words. It's nice to know (being durable) that they may be fine after all. Having only 2 of them, makes me more self conscious of where and how I plant them and getting it right. They're very expensive and hard to find here, for some reason. Thanks for the babble comment. very kind of you. I'd hoped to give as much info as I could to make answering easier. But sometimes it gets away from me.

 

[Tetters]

Righto Creakers, I used to work at a nursery, and looked after the propagation department. It was so many years ago I can only just remember We grew hundreds of these from tip cuttings. If they cost that much there, it could well be worth having a go. Nothing to lose really is there. As they grow quickly once they root, you may even be able to start your own forest.

 

[CreakyGardener]

Righto Creakers, I used to work at a nursery, and looked after the propagation department. It was so many years ago I can only just remember We grew hundreds of these from tip cuttings. If they cost that much there, it could well be worth having a go. Nothing to lose really is there. As they grow quickly once they root, you may even be able to start your own forest.

I was thinking the same thing. They're not very thick right now, but once they fill in I'd very much like to propagate a few more and fill in some gaps. I prefer different sizes anyway, less uniform. We all swap plants and I make starts for neighbors all the time. So I imagine we'll be seeing more of these around the neighborhood in years to come. Ha!

 

[Tetters]

Those root training cell trays are good for conifers, - well for most shrub cuttings too actually. You finish up with a much improved root system. Just think, if you get enough going you could start a little business. If I was a bit younger, I would definitely do this again, it is so rewarding in every way.

 

[CreakyGardener]

Those root training cell trays are good for conifers, - well for most shrub cuttings too actually. You finish up with a much improved root system. Just think, if you get enough going you could start a little business. If I was a bit younger, I would definitely do this again, it is so rewarding in every way.

I've thought about doing it and selling them on Craig's List to eventually raise money for buying another guitar. But people don't typically come out our way of town.

I had tons of potted plants of all kinds for a while there. Just for fun mostly and I kept a few for my yard. I loved giving them away. Looked like a small nursery for a while. Maybe I'll be doing more again. Like you said, rewarding. Thanks for the tray idea. I'll check into that. I'd been using semi-transparent plastic storage tubs to start them. Makes it less fun later separating them for potting.

 

[Tetters]

I have some like this. We used them a lot in the nursery.

 

[CreakyGardener]

View attachment 95448 I have some like this. We used them a lot in the nursery.

I've been wanting a few of those! But always forget until it's too late.

@Tetters , I'm gona be planting the Carolina's by tomorrow. They're severely root bound and I got them from a nursery that's famous for compound root bound plants. I've seen them repot badly bound trees and shrubs without even roughin up the roots at all just to make them sell better. I've seen some pretty bad one's before but they're cheap so I keep going back and carful what I buy now. ie: If you removed all the dirt, a lot of their trees roots look like a basket inside of a basket,.. inside of a basket. It's a lot of work to save them and hard on the plant or tree, but you gotta do it.

Since you've worked with Carolina Cypress in the past, do you recall how much abuse they can handle as far as trimming roots, sawing slits in the ball and even box cutting to eliminate as much of that circling or girdling mess as possible? Any wisdom or advice to share there before I do something I'll regret?

 

[Tetters]

Sorry to have to say this, but if those roots are circling badly, I would return the plants to the nursery for a refund. Once they get that root bound they will never be the most healthy trees, and it could badly affect how long you can keep them alive. If the roots are really pliable, so much so that you can arrange them easily to point outwards from the main trunk, they should be fine.
Maybe you could post a photo of the roots to have a look at?
Once the roots spiral badly it will affect the tree because it will rock in windy weather, and be unable to send its roots down to make anchor. They will continue to circle, even if you plant it deeply.
As soon as you start pruning those roots, the nursery people will have a right to refuse the refund.

 

[CreakyGardener]

Sorry to have to say this, but if those roots are circling badly, I would return the plants to the nursery for a refund. Once they get that root bound they will never be the most healthy trees, and it could badly affect how long you can keep them alive. If the roots are really pliable, so much so that you can arrange them easily to point outwards from the main trunk, they should be fine.
Maybe you could post a photo of the roots to have a look at?
Once the roots spiral badly it will affect the tree because it will rock in windy weather, and be unable to send its roots down to make anchor. They will continue to circle, even if you plant it deeply.
As soon as you start pruning those roots, the nursery people will have a right to refuse the refund.

Sad to say, that's pretty much the norm around here - from what I've found. Nursery's don't train people like they did in my day at least. Mostly it's the helpers that look for a quick and easy way out with high demands being put on them, that train the next person and so on. Bad habits and no oversight all get passed along. I haven't found a place yet that cares. They leave them in the pots too long and talk down to you if you say anything. So, I leave it alone.

I usually try to purchase bag trees (the kind in sawdust) so I can lay the roots out the way I like. Always had great luck with them and never lost a tree yet. But selection's limited there. Big box stores are the worst offenders around here. Their trees usually have more roots than dirt and the pots are either splitting or bulging. That's why I at least cut the bottoms off and then box cut them, at least. I know it brutal but it has always worked well so far.

If they don't live, then I don't want them anyway. I knew the Carolina Cypress' were a risk when I bought them. Nobody to blame but myself this time. I just hoped to make it work and get some starts later becasue I can rarely find them.

This one good example of a rescue purchases from L+++'s. It was a discounted tree, last of the season laying in a pile going to the trash. It's a Thornless Locust Tree. Pretty tough trees, I figured it was worth trying to save. I cut the bottom off, box cut the sides and then surgically snipped the remaining roots. I wasn't left with much. It's extreme but better than the dumpster it was headed for. So far so good.

 

[Tetters]

I haven't come across this method up until now. If it works, it is plainly worth a try. I must admit, I prefer to buy trees that are ''bare root'' and plant during the winter months (when the ground is not frozen)
Here, I would definitely take the trees back, and complain loudly. As a nursery person in the past as well, I would not blame the helpers - they have to toe the line and do as they're told - I would rather find the boss and give him/her a roasting.
I wish you lotsa luck with your box cutting, and will be extremely interested to know how the trees fare. There IS always something to learn isn't there - we gardeners never seem to know it all
From your pictures I can see just how awful the situation is !!

 

[CreakyGardener]

Thanks Teeters! You no doubt know far more than I do. The kind folks on this forum has taught me so much. I love bare root / field raised, but few people do that here and selection's limited. So I always look for the bag trees - in sawdust. They're usually about $8-$10 so it doesn't break the bank. The box cutting works best on shrubs and flowers with fibrous roots. I started using it on things I would've normally rejected and got great results fast. The plants actually grew faster. Same for trees and surprisingly showed very little stress if any at all. I'm always surprised by that, and I don't normally do it this late in the year but time got away form me. It's trickier with trees but works really well for things you wouldn't normally consider saving becasue of circling roots. But,.. I'm a sucker for a tree that needs a home.

Agreed, it's not the helpers. I'd deleted sentences to shorten my reply. Originally I'd mentioned something similar, that the owners and management don't train personally like they used to. They put so much load on the workers that short cuts get handed down, to keep productivity up. It's a lot of pressure. I worked at 3 nursery's. Although, I was mostly on the landscaping crew and worked in the nursery when it was slow.

I wish I was you, I'd love to roast an owner over selling bad product or be there when you did it. Lol! I've listened to Nursery's give people some of the worst excuses to customers over why a plant is so root bound and how it's totally fine, even normal. Where were you when I needed you? LOL! My wife gets embarrassed when I comment out loud. ha! But she understands. When we drive in town and I see the city landscapers just tossing these horribly root bound trees (like the previous pics I showed) into the ground between the curb and street doing absolutely nothing to them. I can see the root ball basket weave from across traffic. I go on a silly rant about how we'll be seeing those falling over or dying soon enough. And we do. They get replaced regularly,... such a waste on so many levels.

Yep, will take pics of Cypress project and post them if so you can see what I did. It's not the site I was looking for where they did a box cut and then dug the tree up yrs later to show the difference. For now, here's a site with examples of it's benefits:

https://mntca.umn.edu/sites/mntca.u..._cutting_pot_bound_root_systems_formatted.pdf

 

[Tetters]

Cor, thank you for that link, I found the subject altogether fascinating. I need to search out a tree in trouble now to have a go myself. If I can find one in a nursery around here, I will be able to point it out.....if they take no notice the first time, it's usually because they have hearing difficulties, and although you want it to be a quiet conversation away from prying people in the queue, the only way is to up the volume and speak more clearly (much more) to get a price reduction This procedure certainly makes total sense!

 

[oneeye]

Cypress are too much trouble I would find something more suitable your flat ground.